View Poll Results: Compulsory licensing and mandatory kill cords with fines for non compliance?
Compulsory licensing and mandatory kill cords with fines for non compliance 130 22.15%
Keep the current unregulated system with an emphasis on education 457 77.85%
Voters: 587. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 13 May 2013, 17:22   #391
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I don't give a toss what you think my attitude is to be honest.
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Old 13 May 2013, 17:44   #392
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Totally agreed
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Old 13 May 2013, 18:04   #393
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And breathe...

On a better note, much kudos to Ballistic/Boating Dynamix for tweeting a link to this thread.
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Old 13 May 2013, 18:22   #394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Water Merlin View Post
What would we think of someone riding a jetski (PWC) without a kill cord ?
I'd think it was a bit silly, just the same as a rib; but I don't see that making it illegal would make it any less likely?

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What would we think of a child on a bike without a helmet ?
I would think - there is a child getting into a possibly lifelong habit of physical exercise which will probably do far more for his life expectancy than any helmet. I'd also be glad that his parents hadn't fallen into a mistaken belief that an inch or two of badly fitted polystyrene was going to save him from everything life might direct at him despite their being little supporting evidence of a net overall benefit. There is some evidence that motorist actually think (sub consciously), "there is a cyclist with a helmet - I will pass closer to them as they are 'safe'".

[For the avoidance of doubt my children (and I) do where cycle helmets where they or I deem is appropriate. That judgement takes into account the terrain, traffic, speed, etc. Some people believe that balanced risk assessment is OK for kill cords too. Personally I think low speed manoeuvres are not without risk of going overboard and I would normally wear a kill cord then.]

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What would we think of a motorcyclist without a helmet ?
Well I don't Sikh them out I believe there are some people who's religious convictions are strong enough to justify an increased risk. Is there a statistically higher mortality rate amongst Sikh bikers - or have you been conditioned to assume there is only one way to reduce risk? e.g. I would hazard a guess that very few "un-helmeted" riders are racing round country lanes...

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We should make the wearing of kill cords compulsory without a doubt. .
your analogies fall over there because only 1 of the 3 is currently a legal requirements.

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This will cause a problem for the RNLI though as they do not wear kill cords, they seem to be immune from coming out of boats ! I think not.
RNLI use their boats in a more extreme way than most yet I am only aware of one RNLI crew v's prop incident - that wasn't the helm so a kill cord would not have prevented. I've never heard a report of a 'runaway' RNLI boat either. Whilst runaway boats can happen at any size I think it is generally agreed that in skilled hands sensible power-size ratios reduce the risk. The RNLI boats aren't actually particularly overpowered.

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Originally Posted by thomas View Post
the world is a more dangerous place but technology means we can wear helmets without really noticing them
Is the world more dangeous? the laws of physics haven't changed - is it really just that the modern age means you hear about stuff your wouldn't have, people have more access to a wider range of risks and things (like disease and industrial accidents) that used to kill us younger are now less likely to...

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Originally Posted by GJ0KYZ View Post
Simply ghey.
Your argument may or may not have been valid but unfortunately the thinly veiled homophobic reference rendered the whole lot nonsense. If I remember correctly the last person who was rebuked for using it was a school boy - I had assumed 'grown ups' were able to construct a more rational basis for debate.
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Old 13 May 2013, 18:33   #395
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I've never heard a report of a 'runaway' RNLI boat either
Sum daiys arr beter thann uvvers faw berryin badd nooz
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Old 13 May 2013, 21:45   #396
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Kill Cords

There is something else to consider here; I know of a RIB driver who was thrown from his boat in rough seas. He was wearing a kill cord. The problem was that his buddy was unable to start the motor to go to his aid. It nearly resulted in a drowning and a rescue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nos4r2 View Post
Powerboat & RIB Magazine is campaigning for compulsory licensing for powerboat users, and for kill cords to be mandatory with fines imposed for anyone not complying.

Do you agree that following the incident at Padstow this weekend the time has come to bring in legislation? Or do you think the current system is sufficient?

There's a poll at the top of this thread. It's anonymous so please click on the option that you favour. Feel free to discuss the ramifications of either option, or if you feel I've left something out.

It closes in 7 days.

NOTE.WE ARE NOT ADVOCATING NOT WEARING KILLCORDS.THEY ARE AN ESSENTIAL PART OF SAFETY EQUIPMENT.
PLEASE DON'T WADE IN SAYING 'I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU LOT DON'T WANT TO USE THEM, THIS IS NOT THE CASE
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Old 13 May 2013, 23:57   #397
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There is something else to consider here; I know of a RIB driver who was thrown from his boat in rough seas. He was wearing a kill cord. The problem was that his buddy was unable to start the motor to go to his aid. It nearly resulted in a drowning and a rescue.
There are numerous references in this thread regarding how folks carry spare cords. There are also numerous solutions.

Choose your favourite
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Old 14 May 2013, 00:07   #398
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I ran Evinrudes for many years which had a spare kill cord fixture on the tiller handle. The problem was that many of my passengers did not have the foggiest idea how to remove it from the seat and place it on the kill switch. I instructed them, but by not normally running the motors, they were rusty to say the least and I did not trust them in a pinch to get the motor running. It was a concern to me as I did not want the boat heading for the horizon while in the drink or to have it stalled out too far away to re board it. I made sure the throttle friction was set low enough for the engine to decrease throttle whenever it was released.

Now that we have a Mercury, the kill switch is much easier for a newbie to learn to operate under stress which I appreciate.

There are factors which must be addressed in addition to a set rule as to when the kill switch must be used. I try to handle this by making my passengers aware of the use of the switch and how to restart the engine after a shutdown.

When alone in the boat, the kill cord is attached to me. If boating with my wife or grandchildren, I am more aware of the conditions and may not have it attached when actually fishing. You leave the helm to work with the lines and such, sometimes very suddenly. You have to use a measure of common sense in order to cover all the bases at times.

In our kayaks, my rule is that you cannot board one without actually wearing a flotation device. Life jackets are not worn on the motor boats except under certain conditions.

You cannot set a rule in concrete without knowing what the actual conditions of the trip are. You want to be on the safe side as much as possible, but there is more to consider than just the switch itself. Education is the key when all is said and done.
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Old 14 May 2013, 00:19   #399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Water Merlin View Post

Why not a proximity sensor for the dim people who are unable to locate the kill switch in a convenient position ?
If by proximity sensor you mean wireless kill cords, then these are already commercially available - see separate thread on killcords. They don't appear to be setting the market alight.

Having been involved in the development of many bluetooth/wireless devices aimed at convenience, my own opinion is that wireless protocols and the technology to deliver them have some stability, reliability and durability issues for a leisure marine application where safety is the overriding requirement.

A simple kill cord has few failure modes, and most of them are visible (not attached, broken cord etc). Redundancy, in the form of a spare cord, is also straightforward to provide for.

A wireless system has many more failure modes, many of them not obvious (flat battery, fob not in pocket, fob batteries fail at sea, circuit failure, salt corrosion, wireless interference etc).
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Old 14 May 2013, 02:11   #400
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poly View Post
Your argument may or may not have been valid but unfortunately the thinly veiled homophobic reference rendered the whole lot nonsense. If I remember correctly the last person who was rebuked for using it was a school boy - I had assumed 'grown ups' were able to construct a more rational basis for debate.
Poly, you need to wise up on your 'street' mate. Nowadays the term 'ghey' has nothing to do with being homosexual; hence my spelling to reiterate the point. And don't assume I'm grown up either. I did find your Sikh joke quite funny though.
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