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View Poll Results: Compulsory licensing and mandatory kill cords with fines for non compliance?
Compulsory licensing and mandatory kill cords with fines for non compliance 130 22.15%
Keep the current unregulated system with an emphasis on education 457 77.85%
Voters: 587. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09 May 2013, 11:12   #171
Country: USA
Town: Leesburg
Make: Zodiac
Length: 4m +
Engine: Outboard 40
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 53
I haven't read through all the posts on this topic (there are a lot of them), but if this guy was driving a car with his family in it and he overturned it on the side of the road and he and his kid were killed because they weren't wearing seat belts, would we even be discussing it?

There are plenty of laws requiring seat belt use and seat belts have been demonstrated to improve safety, but if they weren't wearing them we'd say it's their own fault and be done with it. There'd not be any discussion that the seat belt laws need to be changed or enforcement stepped up because of one incident.

I think that a person who uses a boat/car/plane should be responsible for his/her own actions and suffer any consequences that result from their own poor decisions. However, if in this case the boat had run away and hit some uninvolved party down the river somewhere, then you may have a case for changing the laws or regulations.

In the case of this accident, it is made more news worthy because the boat circled over the victims multiple times (and some big shot was involved). If the boat had happened to go straight (or perhaps even larger circles) it would have ended up aground pretty quickly because of the geography of the estuary the accident occurred in and perhaps no one would have been seriously injured. After the initial upset, the accident was compounded by very bad luck indeed.

P.S. You could even make the argument that it is better for a runaway boat to circle tightly rather than run straight to contain it and therefore by regulation require the helm on all boats to be spring loaded in one direction to ensure circling if the helm is unattended. Shouldn't be a problem in normal operation because you always have at least on hand on the helm at all times, right?

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Old 09 May 2013, 11:13   #172
azzurro's Avatar
Country: Other
Town: Madrid-Almeria
Boat name: SEPIA
Make: honwave
Length: 3m +
Engine: Honda BF20
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 197
I would not make it mandatory. Education?
Just walkin' Spanish.
Keelhaulin' I mean.
Go start that engine.
Better than education.

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Old 09 May 2013, 11:20   #173
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: portskerra
Boat name: orca
Make: osprey
Length: 6m +
Engine: twin suzuki DT40
MMSI: 235029499
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 12
It's news worthy because it was a rich bloke, otherwise it wouldn't have hardly been mentioned.
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Old 09 May 2013, 11:30   #174
Country: UK - England
Town: Lymington
Boat name: rib-it
Make: Scopion
Length: 8m +
Engine: Suzuki 250
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 100
Originally Posted by Anchorhandler View Post
Not broken?

As someone who spends a heck of a lot of time on "the front line" i would quite strenuously argue that it"s not quite as fine and dandy out there as you think it is.

With all due respect, your living in a dream world.... i suppose that people are discouraged to go out and buy a motorcycle because they have to do a seperate licence?

the "half arsed crackpot scheme" i mentioned would only cost a fraction of the cost of doing the CBT let alonr the full licence!

UK motorcycle sales show positive trend - Motorcycle news: Industry - Visordown

Wake up people.... things need to change and the sooner you all pull your heads out of that bucket of sand the sooner we can work towards a solution that is accepted by all party's involved.

So if it terns out the guy had a PB2 will you change your mind?

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Old 09 May 2013, 11:36   #175
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Country: UK - England
Town: Wirral & Caernarfon
Boat name: That's Enuff
Make: Revenger & Avon SR4
Length: 7m +
Engine: Honda 150HP & 50HP
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,079
Originally Posted by Chris Caton
Hmmmmmm....... don't think one of these will gracing our rib console anytime soon
Originally Posted by C2 RIBS View Post
We use similar ones we got from RNLI,

I am unsure on why there is such an anti feel towards a commercial mag seller who
is trying to help people save their lives. Yes the timing is directly after a tragedy but actually what better time than to focus our minds on basic skills and basic survival options. Everyone can choose not to use on, buy one, obtain one and will continue to make their own decisions on their safety.
Clearly from the position of what operators were reporting this weekend on many forums, within 24-48hrs of the deaths, the advice was ignored anyway and loads were out without using them.

I believe other companies such as RYA do similar stickers and they have their logos on the sticker.
sorry to sound a touch negative on what is an important issue, but last time I looked no one had contributed anything towards the cost of our rib when we bought it, apart from my mate Jeff who donated 5, so anyone who thinks that they can tell me what goes on the console and what doesn't is in for a hard time, so off and mind your own business!

As for HMS and PBRM, the only reason they have any weight to a discussion they wish to take part in is due to the number of readers they can quote read the mag. If they do decide to take this further, then I won't be reading the mag any more. If HMS wishes to do so as a concerned boater, then that's a different matter, but I have no wish for HMS or PBRM to represent my views, especially without at least first asking my opinion.

I know my thoughts will just create more views, but to be honest that' s not my concern. I always use the kill cord on our rib, apart from when I forget, doesn't happen often but it does happen. If I wish to fit a reminder to attach the kill cord then I will do so, but I won't be told what to do. If my some miracle this does become a requirement by some sort of legislation, then I guess someone will have to catch me out first. My dad was a policeman for 25 years, one of his by lines was "the law only applies to law abiding people", I guess the vast majority of those on RIBNET are law abiding, and also like me use their kill cords. Who is going to apply any legislation to all those who do use their kill cords, lets have patrols on the water all round the UK and all those who have insurance can pay a bit extra for it, the same people who have insurance will have also most likely done at least their PB2 as well, so have already spent money. Those who don't bother with insurance now, probably still won't bother if it's mandatory and won't bother with the kill cords either. I know I'm rambling, I'm blaming the chemotherapy, only a few weeks to go now!! If you think I'm talking crap, that's up to you, just think about how many drivers there are who have no driving licence, insurance or MOT, if the police do manage to catch them when they get to court its a slap on the wrist and a cup of tea, so why should I get an on the spot fine for not attaching a kill cord??

lets not forget the family left devastated by last weekends accident, but lets remember them by just using our kill cords
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Old 09 May 2013, 11:40   #176
Country: UK - England
Town: romford
Boat name: maverick
Make: regal 2150 lsc
Length: 6m +
Engine: inboard diesel
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 16
boats and kill cords

Every body that drives a boat should at least do RYA level one. Kill cords should be worn but as for fines im not sure.
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Old 09 May 2013, 11:42   #177
Country: UK - England
Town: Barnsley
Length: 6m +
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1
Darwinism will sort out the ones that don't use them.
We have enough big brother in this country without being legislated more in our leisure time.
It would just be another excuse to tax/licence/rip off the public.
Leave it alone, let the idiots die, and then we buy their boat cheaply and run it safely.
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Old 09 May 2013, 11:42   #178
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Country: UK - England
Town: Littlehampton, W Sx
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Whilst noting that any accidental death is tragic, HMS stated "19 fatalities in 4 years". This will be less than 19 distinct incidents because some of these involved incidents with more than one fatality, but lets go for a rate of 5 fatalities a year and make a comparison.

In 2010:

* 3 people died as a result of dog bites
* 7 people died as a result of being bitten by 'other mammals'
* 3 people died as a result of falling into swimming pools
* 5 people died as a result of accidental suffocation in bed
* 17 people died as a result of contact with heat or hot substances (including barbecues, I assume)
* 5 people died as a result of contact with wasps, hornets or bees
* 6 people died due to lack of food.
* 9 people died as a result of falling from cliffs
* 6 women died as a result of a fall from a ladder
* 29 people died after drowning in the bath.

Shall we introduce mandatory training for barbecues at the point of sale, classes for bed-making and fence in all swimming-pools and cliffs?

We oughtn't limit our altruism by familiarity with Ribs: lets include all vessels, including sailing boats - after all, they can be large, move quickly, have limited capabilities for changing of direction/speed and generally go out in windy conditions. They don't, for instance, slice in front of oil tankers...

Would it be flawed to suggest that anyone over 35 tends to be more capable of assessing risk than people under 35 who have generally been surrounded by Health and Safety?
"Can ye model it? For if ye can, ye understand it, and if ye canna, ye dinna!" - Lord kelvin
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Old 09 May 2013, 11:46   #179
Country: UK - England
Town: Sussex
Make: RIBTEC 655
Length: 6m +
Engine: Yam 150
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,152
Originally Posted by bobatporty View Post
It's news worthy because it was a rich bloke, otherwise it wouldn't have hardly been mentioned.
Poor people make the news too, not quite sure where money fits in, whenever kids are involved a story will hit the headline.
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Old 09 May 2013, 11:47   #180
Country: UK - Wales
Town: gwent
Boat name: waw
Make: fletcher
Length: 5m +
Engine: 115 yam
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 3

I'm sick and tired of do gooders trying to legislate, this government of ours takes away, charges and taxes our civil liberties on a daily basis, volunteering for any legislation is sure to incur extra cost . IF prior to this sad accident legislation had been in place can we be sure that even then that the kill cord would have been used ?
Education, education, education. Keep it voluntary or you will drive people away from this hobby.
The person in charge of this rib was not inexperienced, if it turns out to be the kill cord not being used then no amount of legislation or training would have prevented this tragic event.

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