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View Poll Results: Compulsory licensing and mandatory kill cords with fines for non compliance?
Compulsory licensing and mandatory kill cords with fines for non compliance 130 22.15%
Keep the current unregulated system with an emphasis on education 457 77.85%
Voters: 587. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09 May 2013, 08:27   #141
Country: UK - England
Town: Binfield
Boat name: merlinless now
Length: no boat
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 447
I suppose every year this comes up about training and kill cords,

every year we see issues with people not wearing them and the accidents that result, which i think is very say

i think people will always forget to wear them, after all history has proved this has it not

so, why not make sure the engine will not start or stop, if the hand is taken off the throttle or something like that, e.g some sort of of prevention better than a killcord

the simple exmaple i use is, in the old days people used to leave the petrol caps behind, but now they have a plastic strap you they do not. So maybe we need to apply the same FMEA analysis to outboards.

Boatless - better get down the pub and drown my sorrows
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Old 09 May 2013, 08:31   #142
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Country: UK - England
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Length: 3m +
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Posts: 240
Good, healthy debate folks, keep it up!

@ UK Matt - if you are the only person in the UK who's attitude towards kill cords has been changed by the tragedy in Padstow, then I recon that's a pretty positive outcome (sorry, terrible wording, but hopefully you see where I'm coming from)

Regarding the comparision between boating and driving, IMO the analogy just doesn't hold:

The road network relies on a significant level of cooperation between road users. I know it doesn't always feel like it, but think about it - if just one person decided that they were going to drive on the wrong side of the road there would be chaos. The system just wouldn't work.

At sea, with the exception maybe of the Solent during Cowes week, you can pretty much make your way without knowing of the col-regs - I can't remember the last time I had to use 'who has right of way when boat x is plotting one course and boat y is plotting an converging one'. Generally, if it's bigger than be or has sales I stay away!

Once you're out of the harbour, you might not even see another boat for hours (and let's face it, that's the point, isn't it?)

The same level of close cooperation just isn't required - a good dose of commom sense and a brain in your head usually does the trick.

Any form of legislation will lead to increased costs and more restriction.

At the moment there is basically no publicity at all regarding use of kill cords. A simple poster campaign and maybe even a TV ad campaign in coatal regions would be a good place to start. Then gauge reaction to see if anything further is even required.
I don't have an attitude, I have a personality you can't handle.
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Old 09 May 2013, 08:33   #143
Country: UK - England
Town: Bristol
Boat name: loopy lou
Make: Avon Searider
Length: 5m +
Engine: Honda BF75
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 128
Originally Posted by Nos4r2 View Post
I haven't confused you with anyone and what I saw you doing in your vids was actually pretty sensible. However, if you push for legislation, it will apply to you as well. Don't expect it to allow you to continue the way you have been as the people who are allowing you to do what you've been doing will soon realise they can't allow it without being fined/hammered themselves.

A bit like the landlords getting fined/shut down if they don't call the police if someone lights up a cigarette in their pub. Not that there's any pubs left...
I think I understand where you are coming from and I used to be of a similar mind ( no one likes controls ) but over time you see many accidents luckily not as sad as this one and it makes you think that they could have been avoided with a little training.
I do not particulary want to be policed for not wearing a kc while I am on the water but if not legislation stopping untrained people to use the slipways or harbours around the coast could be a good start
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Old 09 May 2013, 08:37   #144
Country: UK - England
Town: Southampton
Boat name: Darwin
Make: Ribeye
Length: 6m +
Engine: 150hp Yamaha
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Originally Posted by thomas View Post
I had 4 takers on my offer just simple red letters to remind you - Offer still open for anyone that want one.
And I need new office signs as well!
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Old 09 May 2013, 08:41   #145
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Country: UK - England
Town: Zummerset
Boat name: irven arlyss
Make: Humber Oceanpro
Length: 6m +
Engine: evinrude 135hp
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Posts: 394
Originally Posted by Anchorhandler View Post
I'm quite convinced that its just scaremongering by people convinced that mandatory training is not required.

A few month ago both myself and fellow Rib.net member Tonto were involved in quite a spirited discussion on the subject of mandatory regulation. We both spend a very large percentage of the year on the water and can see better than most the issues caused by a lack of training.

Although i'm not in favour of a mandatory KC regulation i am and have been for some time now in favour of a mandatory minimum safety certificate which would need to be gained before anyone wishes to own a boat.

I would like to see it administered by the MCGA (Not the RYA) requireing only a day's classroom training but concentrating on basic safety at sea.

Sadly, from where i sit and with my viewpoint of the boating community, i believe we're losing the battle in trying to maintain or promote a safe boating mentality.

"Education not Legislation"?? OK, but i fear that more and more nowadays, people are needing a gently regulatory "nudge" in order to get educated.

Well said Simon.

I am not advocating a law on the wearing of a KC.

I absolutely believe there is a requirement for some form of compulsory basic training, and not only by the RYA, it could be offered by a number of training centers, or individuals, if MCA approved.

As for the comments that the vendors of boats should ensure the person buying the vessel has the correct training/instruction, that is going to be a no go. If I sell my rib privately, and the buyer then goes out and has an accident he is likely to say I did not train him properly, or check his training/qualifications...... not a good way to go.

With Compulsory basic traing, you have by default licensing.

There are a number of comments that say that traffic laws and traing do not stop deaths on roads, WHAT A LOAD OF TOSH! Imagine the carnage on the roads if there was no laws, or training at all! The training and laws REDUCE the deaths, and accidents, but cannot eliminate them.
I have spent a fair amount of time in the Far East, where training and enforcement of traffic laws are pretty informal, and they have horrendous death rates on the roads.

Traing, and education are the way to go, as well as experience, but in order for people to gain experience with some degree of safety, then training is needed.

A large number of members on here have already expressed that they have training, and most members on here are in agreement that KC should be worn, but there are thousands of small boat owners who are not members, and these are the ones we need to be targeting.

I hear the expression "Ebay boaters" or "Ebay specials" these are the people that need the education. If they need training before buying a boat, it might make things safer for other users.

I personally dont care if someone want to go out and kill themselves, BUT, when others are involved, as they always are, then you cannot just let people go out in a hostile and dangerous environment without some form of training.

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Old 09 May 2013, 08:52   #146
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Country: UK - England
Town: South Coast
Length: 7m +
Join Date: Apr 2008
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I admire the efforts of HMS on the availablity of stickers.
Education has to be the way forward and maybe the insurance companies requiring proof of such, in order to get cover or a discount for those that have sought education.

I'm a little confused by Ribbed41Pleasure. I also have a 9m RIB with the Mercury toggle switch and have in the last 3 years, covered the equivalent distance of 4 trans-Atlantic crossings. Not once have we had the killcord activate by accident and can move to either side of the helm consol without triggering it. Perhaps a picture of the layout might explain? We only secure it to the thigh via a dog collar
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Old 09 May 2013, 08:53   #147
Country: UK - England
Town: Sussex
Make: RIBTEC 655
Length: 6m +
Engine: Yam 150
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Originally Posted by Mick Balch View Post
Hi Thomas - I will take one from you please and will send address in pm. if you could email the 'design' or wording I could get a whole lot priced up - without any reference to any commercial organisation and offer them to ribnet users, maybe?

Thank you
Nothing Fancy, just cut vinyl lettering, about 9 cms wide, they will come with application paper to transfer them.

David, I've got a sticker here for your boat, been down a few times to see Mark and popped round to see if you were about - I'll give you warning next time. Did you like the new MB signs?
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Old 09 May 2013, 08:54   #148
Country: UK - England
Town: South Coast
Boat name: unnamed
Make: custom
Length: 7m +
Engine: Mariner 100HP
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 6
I've seen sufficiant idiots bombing around in speedboats with no awareness of other waterusers (including running between swimmers off a busy beach) while I've been on rescue lookout duty that I have come around completely from my initial view to the idea of compulsory training for powerboat and jestski users. It really doesn't take that long to get a PB2 cert, and next to the cost of learning to drive it's negligable. Insurance is another thing that should definitely be compulsory in my view.
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Old 09 May 2013, 09:04   #149
Country: UK - England
Town: Hamble
Length: 9m +
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Originally Posted by thommo View Post
I've seen sufficiant idiots bombing around in speedboats .
Oi, what's with the speedboat reference, this latest incident was a RHIB ! There's idiots in all types of boating, not just us "speedboaters".

It's all very sad what happened at the weekend, but I am a little suprised at the media attention that it's receiving, perhaps due to a slow news weekend.

Anybody remember the incident at the 2010 Southampton Boat Show, involving a demo boat, dealer and not using the killcord which resulted in 1 fatality.
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt!
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Old 09 May 2013, 09:09   #150
Country: UK - England
Town: Portsmouth
Boat name: Various
Make: Ribeye's
Length: 7m +
Engine: Yamaha 250 & 300
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Originally Posted by biffer View Post
You can dress things up and put stickers all over your boat, it won't stop accidents or boats killing people, it's a sad fact of life, cigarettes packets have stickers all over them and it doesn't stop a thing
A refreshing blast of common sense courtesy of Biff - If you ever consider running for Parliament, you'd get my vote !

"Better to remain silent ...... ! "
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