View Poll Results: Compulsory licensing and mandatory kill cords with fines for non compliance?
Compulsory licensing and mandatory kill cords with fines for non compliance 130 22.15%
Keep the current unregulated system with an emphasis on education 457 77.85%
Voters: 587. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09 May 2013, 06:53   #91
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[QUOTE=Mark Of Loxley;535402]

Although it was a tragic accident, attaching your kill cord to yourself, either via wrist strap or clip on to a lifejacket should be the first thing you do.



Should not be round the wrist far to easy to slip off
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Old 09 May 2013, 06:54   #92
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Originally Posted by Ribbed41Pleasure View Post
Willks . . Haha if you say so
.....Maybe I am a fool, but dumb, no - I have thought about it. Something that I bet many to which this whole debate relates - have not.
I thought you might say that. You're right too, one can be foolish and clever at the same time. I shall share with you a story:

I had the good fortune to know a most unusual man for many years. He taught me more practical things and passed more common sense to me than my own father did. He left his farm in Ireland in the 1930s and joined your RAF as other ranks, training to be radio operator. He overcame class issues, chauvinism and general odds to be accepted into pilot training in 1938. By 1940 he was flying a Spitfire over the BEF evac at the Battle of Dunkirk. His engine shot out, he ditched on the beach and made it "home" in a small boat. Back in the air the next day he later continued to fight through the Battle of Britain. A true survivor and nobody's fool. Except for one little thing - he refused to wear a seatbelt, couldn't see the point, wasn't bothered, etc. When legislation was introduced he actually went to the length of getting a Doctor to give him a "letter of excuse" in case he was pulled over. Clever man? yes! Brave man? - for sure! Bit foolish about seatbelts? - definitely!

Even if you won't wear your killcord for yourself and your crew - wear one for the other people on the water, and the emergency services...

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Old 09 May 2013, 06:57   #93
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Nigel, sound and humbled advice! I agree it is education and realisation of the dangers.

In the aviation industry we are going away from prescribed rules and competency checks.

Crews are encouraged to discuss dangers rather than brief standard items from a chart or book or checklist. We are being encouraged to stop and sort of say to each other - "What the hell is gonna kill us today?" Even if we do not come up with a mitigating action to avoid or reduce this danger, by merely admitting it's existence both to the other guy but more so ourselves, we are surely in a better place to avoid it from happening. This is something that as some very open and honest people had admitted to not doing when buying into this lovely leisure industry.
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Old 09 May 2013, 07:00   #94
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I agree with those who advocate licensing - our waters are becoming more congested and in my view those driving boats should be subjected to BOTH training and a test of competence.
Why should a boat be any different from a car or motorcycle, arguable they are more dangerous as used without the guidance of roads and their regulations.. Add to that people being both in the craft and also in the water I am amazed we do not have more accidents. Our boat is in Swanage and I see boats far too close to swimmers and travelling at silly speeds.

We would not allow an untrained person behind the wheel of a car on our roads so why at the helm of a boat in our waters...
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Old 09 May 2013, 07:01   #95
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Other options / Wider debate

I don't think two options in a poll is enough to cover all that needs to be discussed in relation to the issue of powerboat (and sail) safety. I would also need "not sure" and "both" on the poll.

For many years I used to be anti legislation but I see so many idiots, unfortunates and unlucky people out there (and have plucked many of them out of the water over the last few years) that I am now not sure about the issue.

I don't think legislation for kill cords alone is enough but maybe something like a PB2 Qual or something as a minimum. (and indeed options of qualifications other than the RYA to avoid it being even more of a monopoly by them)

Even if qualified/legislation is applied of course that is no guarantee of people being reminded to do the right thing kill cord wise and more so education, ongoing training, reminders etc all play there part. Hence the need for "both" being an option.

Everyone can get complacent from time to time and we all need refreshers and reminders. Many new people need to be shown from day one and the importance of what they are learning underlined. Learning without a purpose in mind can be boring but with a purpose in mind it becomes focused if not interesting.

If legislated for it also raises issues like should all boats be coded? It has been determined that commercial operators have a need for a minimum level of safety kit at sea on their boats so that surely should apply to all boaters including leisure ones? Ditto training levels you can be licensed for the daytime only commercially but what about at night with just a PB2 for leisure operators?

The big issue is how it would be policed if there was legislation. The less policing the bigger the penalty has to be to make sure the take up and actual application is wide.

I am commercial/advanced and I never venture out without wearing my life jacket all the time, kill cord on in a rib/open powerboat, waterproof vhf clipped onto me and in my pocket I have a knife and compass.

So far in this debate I do not actually have enough information to form a final opinion either way (apart from the education element is good either way) but I do like threads like this that debate the issue sensibly to try and arrive at the right solution before some boff in a suit in London knowing nothing about boating decides it for us.
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Old 09 May 2013, 07:04   #96
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Powerboat and RIB response

For those of you who wish to impute wrong motives over our sticker campaign I wish to state the following: Here at Powerboat and RIB we are shocked, saddened and deeply upset over the tragic accident that happened in Padstow and we are determined to do all that we can to increase awareness of safety measures and to educate so that we might be able to go some way to help prevent another horrifying accident. There have been 19 fatalities in the last 4 years, and numerous near escapes from out of control boats. At this present time we are working with the marine investigators who are fully in approval of our campaign. We are not just a commercial magazine, we have been passionate about family boating for over 20 years and as the only UK magazine dedicated to this exact sector of the market we also feel a responsibility to use our voice. The reason we have used our logo is because we want to show that we care about this and that it carries a level of authority as having been designed and produced by people who know what they are talking about. If 'Joe Bloggs' had produced a sign it may show attaching the cord around the wrist or onto a zip as shown on television this week. Our sticker carries our stamp of experience and approval and our recommendation, we believe it is far superior to the RYA (branded) sticker which has been in circulation. Would you also have an issue with the RYA sticker carrying their logo, which actually dominates the sticker? ! The answer would be ridiculous as it merely shows the sticker comes from a respected organisation who have taken the initiative to do something. We have received a tremendous level of support from respected industry sources and from private individuals and organisations wishing to stock batches of the warning sticker. We are not in any way suggesting that 'our' sticker be an officially legislated sign, but that each vessel should be required to carry a suitable warning.

As regards the thread concerning mandatory legislation and licencing, we are not suggesting this would stop all accidents or irresponsible behaviour, but if it helps to reduce such, it has to be worthwhile. The legislation does not need to be burdensome or costly, but rather good practice. Who would really mind having a one day basic course on a subject they have a love for in order to obtain a licence that helps them to be a better seaman and gets them off to a better start? Even to drive a 50cc moped, riders are required to do a one day CBT basic course, whereas individuals are allowed to power off with a 50-350HP OB without any experience or knowledge. Even on this thread, there are several lacking the knowledge as to how to wear the kill cord correctly. It should not be worn on the wrist or clipped to clothing - EVER. Many here have claimed that a basic training requirement would put people off boating. However, what could put people off boating more than such a terrible tragedy? In my view, those individuals on this thread who rebel against wearing a kill cord and /or have trivialized the wearing of such with natty/clever comments are both ill-informed and dangerous. Whilst many on this thread show a high degree of responsibility and a mature attitude, frankly I am disgusted by some of the attitudes displayed here. HMS
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Old 09 May 2013, 07:05   #97
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And willks I am not suggesting we or I do not wear and should not wear a kill chord! Just that there can sometimes be a situation that may on balance make it no safer to do so. I do not want to be pulled up or called a to##er by onlookers just because the law says we should ALWAYS wear a kill chord.

As Douglas Bader once wrote - 'Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men'

I just hope that those that implement any rules have the same wise approach to policing it. I fear not!
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Old 09 May 2013, 07:08   #98
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I dont think legislation is needed its education that needs to be increased...from who i dont know but i think thats the best way.

Ive been thrown out my thundercat a number of times a luckily always been wearing my kill cord. I think it goes without saying you should wear a killcord, its like a selt belt in car.

My own thoughts though at that i use my boat partly to get away from all the regulations and red tape. its a great way to just do whatever you want whereever and how ever you want. It would take the fun out of it if regulations were bought in.
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Old 09 May 2013, 07:19   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ribbed41Pleasure View Post
And willks I am not suggesting we or I do not wear and should not wear a kill chord!
I accept that this may be your real position on the issue. However, it's not what you said in your first post and that was what we were responding to. Read the post below - it reads (to me) like "I don't wear a killcord, my crew don't and they're not safe". I strongly disagreed with that apparent sentiment and I know Nos did too. Fair play to you for taking a step back from it.
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Originally Posted by Ribbed41Pleasure View Post
And then Mercury users (if like the last two I have owned) will have a greater risk of injuring people from false emergency stops because the kill cord toggle switch is too sensitive. I gave up using mine for this reason. I had to balance risk of no kill chord against using one which caused it's own dangers. So now only briefed 'trusted' crew go near the throttle/helm. I make it quite clear to everyone the dangers and get quite 'shirty' with people on the boat who don't listen or head the warnings. Kill chords in my experience solve one problem but can create another - they are not the holy grail in my view (for Mercury anyway)
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Old 09 May 2013, 07:24   #100
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I would like to point out that this is a personal opinion and not in any way Ribnet policy.

HMS.

The stickers are a FABULOUS idea. I don't have any issue with your magazine name being on them.

However.

You are NOT an elected industry spokesperson and your campaign for regulation is unwelcome. I repeat my earlier statements about government involvement being a negative force.
The RNLI refuse government funding for a very good reason-they'll be messed around with. If you think we'd be otherwise I'm afraid you're deluded.

If the campaign for legislation does not end, I will be cancelling my subscription to your magazine. I urge others who feel the same way to vote with their feet as well.

If you're going to put your head over the parapet,deal the enemy a crippling blow otherwise all you do is to shout 'look at me, I'm here' and give them somewhere to aim.

Hopefully they haven't seen you yet.
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