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Old 30 May 2013, 09:53   #11
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For the record, no-one will ever set foot on a small open boat of mine without a lifejacket on...
Ditto
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Old 30 May 2013, 10:07   #12
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For the record, no-one will ever set foot on a small open boat of mine without a lifejacket on...[/QUOTE]

ditto +1
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Old 30 May 2013, 11:45   #13
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Well I think your right to have questioned and requested LJ's, although it shouldn;t have been necessary as you should've all recieved a demo before departure, and offered if not made to wear the LJ's especially in the case of small sided craft.
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Old 30 May 2013, 11:50   #14
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So where was this ? Then we can pass ribnet judgement.............
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Old 30 May 2013, 11:55   #15
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The reason they don't put lifejackets on their customers is that it would take longer to fit them than the trip duration. So 15-20 minutes of faffing about and 10 minutes on the trip. Lifejacket use would mean much fewer trips and higher prices. The public love cheap!

.
Dont agree with that sentiment- another operator at Southsea sea front does short trips (15-20 mins) and issues lifejackets every time and also does a safety brief, this brief is slightly less than I do but covers everything needed for a short blast and very professional. (exhilaration boat rides)

Any operator as said who decides to just have LJs aboard as per requirement and does not issue them can be shown to be negligent if no LJ briefing is conducted. Take an aircraft, we dont wear LJs but we all gain a safety brief instruction on wearing them and where to find them.
In the case mentioned that started this I would hazard a guess nothing given on LJ fitting and use to non wearers?

250 has identified risk assessments and yes we have a full duty of care, in the event of an incident/report it would be hard to argue after the event I decided not to issue LJs because???
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Old 30 May 2013, 12:25   #16
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Dont agree with that sentiment- another operator at Southsea sea front does short trips (15-20 mins)
It's not really a sentiment. More a statement of fact. An outfit that provide 10 minute trips will have their turnabout time severely stretched if they issue lifejackets. 10 minute trips are popular because they're cheap and allow people to "go in a speedboat" for minimal outlay. On a 20 minute trip, the kitting up time is proportionally halved.

Personally I think taking PAX in a RIB without lifejackets worn is outrageous. You'd be fined for it here - totally illegal, even on a leisure boat.
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Old 30 May 2013, 13:28   #17
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It's not really a sentiment. More a statement of fact. An outfit that provide 10 minute trips will have their turnabout time severely stretched if they issue lifejackets. 10 minute trips are popular because they're cheap and allow people to "go in a speedboat" for minimal outlay. On a 20 minute trip, the kitting up time is proportionally halved.

Personally I think taking PAX in a RIB without lifejackets worn is outrageous. You'd be fined for it here - totally illegal, even on a leisure boat.
Understand what your saying as time saving, but I am on side with your second paragraph, most commercial insurance ask for LJs to be worn anyway.

As PeterM says where was this issue as I dont see our area having non wearing LJs on commercial operations. Without a doubt non wearing on a RIB can a disaster and cant see why anyone would go out on an open boat on the sea without one worn
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Old 06 June 2013, 16:05   #18
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where was it..........Lulworth Cove

no life jackets on passengers, even small children
no life jacket on helm
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Old 06 June 2013, 16:28   #19
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So while we can all pass RibNet judgement, who is the regulator of this and would it not be better to have the disucssion with them. They can either say "Well its not illegal so we cant force them" or they can say "Well they need to do a risk assessment" if its the former then we should be asking the regulator why its not illegal (as much as we are against legal controls for kill cords in leisure use I think most people would feel it different for a commercial setting) or if its the latter I'd be asking the regulator if they are satisified with the risk assessment.
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Old 06 June 2013, 16:50   #20
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A commercial operator does not have a legal duty of care to his passengers, no law?
Of course he does, but since he didn't eject any of his passengers into the water he's met his duty of care. Dumping passengers, especially toddlers into the water with or without lifejackets is unlikely to end well. I'd be a little anxious if the organisation put some arbitrary age limit on it.

He'll probably point to the fact he's run thousands of trips for loads of passengers and never harmed them. He'll also point to loads of other situations where people go afloat without lifejackets (e.g. most ferries). It might not be directly comparable but where do you draw the line. Compare to the boat off Wales which hit a rock recently, or boats which operate the Farne Islands etc...

If it was me running a typical rib type operation everyone would be L/Jacketed.

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where was it..........Lulworth Cove
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So while we can all pass RibNet judgement, who is the regulator of this and would it not be better to have the disucssion with them.
Well if you search some terms like Lulworth and Lifejacket I think you will find its been discussed before.
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