Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 
Old 14 March 2005, 07:36   #1
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Lymington
Boat name: Farfetched
Make: Solent Ribs
Length: 6m +
Engine: 150hp Suzuki
MMSI: 235021048
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 954
Cock up in Southampton Water

I want to declare at the outset of this post that I acknowledge we made a grave and potentially very serious error of navigation at night returning from Ryde Sands to Lymington. We were simply unaware of the poor vision ahead of a large vessel turning into Southampton water and thought that 500m or so (but it is hard to judge at night given our lack of experience) was sufficient clearance given we were going at 18 knots. We were also, mistake I acknowledge, only monitoring Channel 77 as we were in close contact with our companion rib as we lacked night time experience and knew our limitation. We should have been triwatching 16 and Southampton VTS as well. So we were at fault, twice.

But what happened next concerns me. A Southampton Harbourmaster launch raced up to us, blue flashing light, shines a spotlight down at us blinding both of us, and shouts at us in a very threatening manner "what the **** are you doing?" "this is unbelievable!". He then told us in no uncertain terms to bring our rib alongside. Jo, at the helm, was understandbly spooked by this, and coming alongside the launch as the wash of the big container vessel arrived proved hard for her (it would have for me). "who is the skipper of this boat?". Me, obviously. Anyway, once I had got on board, and explained the afternoon's events, our lack of experience, and our lack of understanding about the 1000m rolling exclusion zone, he calmed down. Apparently the captain of the vessel thought he had run down one or two powerboats, and had radioed the launch in some concern, so undertandably everyone was tense.

Now, I say again, I was at fault. I admit that. And it could have been very serious.

But, does the aggressive attitude of the Harbourmaster launch really help anyone? We were tired, cold, doing our best. We should have known about the rolling exclusion zone - but we did not. We should have been listening to VTS and 16, but we failed to, my fault again.

It just leaves a bad feeling at the end of the day, and I wonder how this 1000m rolling exclusion zone can be better publicised. Am I just blind and it should have been obvious to me? I had no idea of the huge blind spot in front of a large container ship. Surely they would have a lookout on the bow?

Please understand, I am not saying it was an unfair cop. Just:

1) please everyone remember / be aware of the 1000m rolling zone
2) monitor 16 and VTS
3) be prepared for some attitude if you do break a byelaw on a rib

A wiser,

Bruce
__________________

__________________
brucehawsker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 March 2005, 07:50   #2
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Manchester - Abersoc
Boat name: MeMe
Make: SeaPro 595CC
Length: 6m +
Engine: Mercury 115 4S
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,681
Send a message via MSN to MeMe
It's al part of......

...the learning curve. Bruce, don't be too hard on yourself and for that matter, too hard on the Harbourmaster either. The main thing is you've learnt a valuable lesson and one which will make you a better and wiser skipper. Thanks for sharing your experience, that alone takes guts.
__________________

__________________
Buy it & Use it, then sell it and buy something bigger
MeMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 March 2005, 08:04   #3
Member
 
tim griffin's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Newport IoW
Boat name: Amean/Pronto/Rumbo
Make: Solent Rib Princess
Length: 7m +
Engine: 200hp Etec 260x 2
MMSI: lots of them
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,860
Sorry to hear about your near miss Bruce the information you required is published on your charts re the 1000 metres ahead and 100metres either side exclusion zone . It is a shame the Harbour Master was abit rude but if the master of the vessel thinks he has just run over two small craft imagine how he must have been feeling . Still lesson learned maybe you should consider abit more training now Intermediate is the one for you and you know details of various Instructors on this forum .Glad you are ok quite an eventful trip for you it seems.
__________________
Tim Griffin
RYA Freelance YMI power Powerboat and PWC instructor trainer vhf first aid sea survival Diesel engine radar and navigation instructor
tim griffin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 March 2005, 08:05   #4
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Bracknell
Boat name: Boatless and lost
Length: no boat
MMSI: Who?
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 531
I agree with MeMe.

Big up to you Bruce for sharing this.

I did my advanced PB finishing in Southampton Water at night a few years ago and the 1000m rolling zone was never mentioned.

I for one need to get some more night experience and its something I aim to do this year. You never know when circumstance catches you out and you end up out at night unexpectedly, however much planning you put into a trip.

Glad all came out of it ok.
__________________
Phil

Born to stuff!!
Phil Chitty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 March 2005, 09:09   #5
Member
 
Country: UK - Wales
Town: Pwllheli-North Wales
Boat name: Delta 1
Make: Delta
Length: 6m +
Engine: Mariner 90hp Optimax
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,367
Hi Bruce

Harbourmasters can be a little touch sometimes (Little Hitler and all that).

Did i pass you the other day on the dual carriage way? i was in silver landy 90 and blue rib?
__________________
JG Marine Services Ltd Specialist Safety Boat Services

Bodfuan Shoot Ltd Traditional British Game Shooting
Jono Garton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 March 2005, 09:20   #6
Member
 
Louise's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Reading
Make: None
Length: under 3m
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,039
Bruce & Jo - sorry to hear about your 'escapades' but glad you and the boat are all OK.

As others have said, if nothing else, this will make you better skippers. Your two (mis)adventures show the importance of passage planning and winter homework. It is tempting for those of us who use the area regularly to think of the Solent as a giant playground and a 'safe' place. Before venturing out on our own the first time Richard and I spent a couple of hours with Reed's Almanac and our charts, getting to know the main hazards/things to watch out for. There is a wealth of information there and IMHO every boater should regularly consult these as things change from year to year.

Also, we have a book and twin pack of videos which point out many of the danger points. The book is called 'Solent Hazards' and was written by Peter Bruce. The videos are called 'Telehazards: An Aerial Pilot of the North Solent Shore & An Aerial Pilot of the Isle of Wight' I highly recommend them!
__________________
MUM POWER!
www.biboa.com
Scorpion RIB Group on Facebook
Louise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 March 2005, 09:44   #7
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Farnborough
Boat name: Eleven
Make: Arrow
Length: 8m +
Engine: 557cu, 700hp
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,255
If solent hazards is the one I'm thinking of it's an interesting read, lot's of great photos
__________________
Matt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 March 2005, 09:51   #8
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Nutbourne
Boat name: Renegade
Make: Porter
Length: 6m +
Engine: 140 Tohatsu
MMSI: 235022904
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,195
Bruce, It was not your day, was it.
I agree with everything that is said above. You can take lessons, read books and so on, but you then have to get experience. My wife has some interesting stats somewhere about learning and information retention. They are something along the lines of:- lecture 15%, reading/video 25%, practical 90%.
You got 2 very valuable lessons on Saturday, and just as important you have passed them on to a load more people who will probably remember and be wiser for your adventures.
Regarding a forward lookout, that is what the HM launch does. I guess you must have passed between him and the ship. They have the blue lights on at all times when escourting a ship.

The Harbour Master did have a word earlier with one of the Pompy/Calshot group as we waited at Calshot. We were rafted up/milling outside the channel but were drifting into it. I guess he was pointing this out and probably wondering what was going on.

I am glad to hear that you got home safe and sound in the end.
__________________
Mark H
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools" Douglas Adams
Mark Halliday is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 March 2005, 10:15   #9
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Farnborough
Boat name: Eleven
Make: Arrow
Length: 8m +
Engine: 557cu, 700hp
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,255
15+25+90=130
So if you do all 3 you'll learn more than there is to know?
__________________
Matt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 March 2005, 10:30   #10
Member
 
Country: Other
Length: 6m +
Engine: 200
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 344
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Halliday
They are something along the lines of:- lecture 15%, reading/video 25%, practical 90%.
Nice one Mark I like that.

Solent hazards is a right riveting read and all that but getting out there is the best medicine. I 'd lay a bet they have already read it.

Both Bruce & Dave are no fools and I'm sure both know the ryde bank very well. Lessons learned etc etc and I'm sure they will add it to their tall stories in future.

paul
__________________
Joint Ribtickler 2005
jackeen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 March 2005, 10:50   #11
Member
 
Louise's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Reading
Make: None
Length: under 3m
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,039
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucehawsker
I wonder how this 1000m rolling exclusion zone can be better publicised
Bruce, the exclusion zone is covered in the 'Solent' section of Reed's Almanac and in the introduction to 'Solent Hazards' as well as being marked on charts, as Tim mentioned.

Jackeen, the point I am making is that careful passage planning should prevent both running aground and ignoring an exclusion zone. It's a lot less embarrassing (and safer) not to make the mistake in the first place!

Apologies to Bruce & Dave, I do not mean this to sound like I am 'preaching' at you! Just trying to help others to avoid making mistakes in the future.
__________________
MUM POWER!
www.biboa.com
Scorpion RIB Group on Facebook
Louise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 March 2005, 11:12   #12
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Brittany/Portsmouth
Boat name: Merlin
Make: Solent 6.5
Length: 6m +
Engine: 200
MMSI: soon !
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,451
Bruce..

So sorry you had a difficult time of it !
You guys certainly packed a lot into the weekend after the rest of us were finished on the cruise to Yarmouth !
Going round the Isle of Wight, getting some rays on the 'beach' (not you Ray Bradman!) and a night passage with knobs on!!!!!

Glad you're home safe and think you should write a book!
Lovely to meet you and Jo at the weekend ! We caught up with Dave and Harry on Sunday who gave us all the details of your extra - curricular exploits

missus
__________________
Happy New Resolutions!!! : RIBbing for the craic!!!
The Jackeens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 March 2005, 11:31   #13
Member
 
Country: UK - Wales
Town: Southampton
Boat name: DynaMoHumm/ SRV/deja
Make: Avon8.4, 5.4 & 4.777
Length: 8m +
Engine: Cat3126 Yam 90 &70
MMSI: 42
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,559
I love the Night

Bruce , Jo and Phil,

if you want to get some night time experience I'll be happy to take you along with us on the Tug (its about a 7 hour trip) It will give you a remarkable insight into commercial traffic and help put some meat on the bones of your IRPCS knowledge!

We can take the rib with us and do the return journey by Rib if you want! That's a free of charge offer by the way

I am also quite willing to help you plan a nightime exercise and accompany you in Billy we could go from Southampron Water into Ashlett Creek (trickY!) and then on up to the Noodles. We can return or I'll just throw myself into Alum bay and you guys can go on to Lymington whatever you prefer!

Most of the Southmpton harbourmasters and a few of the Portsmouth pilots are buddies of mine and they are pretty cool guys, and not little hitlers! There is a big difference between ensuring the safety and security of the QM2 or 30,000 ton of crude oil plus the odd ill advised pleasure boat user and patrolling an imaginary line in Portsmouth harbourl

They were/are still pretty spooked by the accident during Cowes week. Some very serious injuries occured when a rib carrying seven people crahed into a two ton unlit mooring bouy at high speed at night. They are mindful that this was caused by a Rib and apart from that they have to deal with a lot of mistakes by pleasure boat owners.

The harbour master role that evening was to enforce an exclusion zone, which is clearly indicated on the charts by the way, he put the searchlight on you to stop you and to illuminate you for the concerned commercial skipper plus ensure your safety on the sea.

The harbour master hands out a little pamphlet re safety on the Solent did he give you a copy if not PM me your address and I will send you one also if you and Jo want to visit the VTS ( it's an impresive operation!) then that's not too hard to arrange!

I think Louises points about planning are bang on especially whilst you are building experience of the waters and craft. The big problem with a rib is the freedom it offers you so it's easy to go off at a tangent to the plan

I am very experience in a rib and have a V good knowledge of the Solent, so I had no excuse when I ran aground off Lee on the Solent. I too am glad that you are OK Remember whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger and wiser!
__________________
Here it comes again, I don't stand a chance
Soul possession, Got me in a trance
Pullin' me back to you - Deja Voodoo
Rogue Wave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 March 2005, 11:37   #14
Member
 
Country: Other
Length: 6m +
Engine: 200
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 344
Nice one Stu

paul
__________________
Joint Ribtickler 2005
jackeen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 March 2005, 11:40   #15
Member
 
Louise's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Reading
Make: None
Length: under 3m
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,039
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Wave
I think Louses points about planning are bang on
Thanks Stuart. I'll forgive you for calling me 'Louse'!
__________________
MUM POWER!
www.biboa.com
Scorpion RIB Group on Facebook
Louise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 March 2005, 11:52   #16
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Dartmouth
Boat name: Puffling
Make: Avon Rover 3.4m
Length: 5m +
Engine: Mercury 15hp
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 401
Send a message via MSN to badbaws
Watch Out!!!

I did a post a little while ago about ships!! I drive ships.. we don't like little boats in the way no matter what they are or how far they think they are away safely or not!!
It is a case of especially in the Solent/ Southampton water and conversely all water users.. that you should all know the ROR and indeed understand the local bye laws of the area you are operating in.. You did say about lack of experience.. well maybe read some more books or look at the big charts of Southampton water it does give guidance..

It is harsh to be shouted at by these people.. they are usually ex seafarers who used to drive ships..

I drive ships for a living.. I know what they do.. they don't stop and at times down Southampton water they may have 1metre clearence on the sea bed.. if you get in the way they won't stop and their safety zone obviously is if you get too close you WILL get bollocked!!!!!

if you or anyone else would like details of what shipping does at sea or in coastal areas.. I will write another thread or PM/ email me...
Alex
__________________
Advanced Power Boat Instructor
badbaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 March 2005, 11:57   #17
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Manchester - Abersoc
Boat name: MeMe
Make: SeaPro 595CC
Length: 6m +
Engine: Mercury 115 4S
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,681
Send a message via MSN to MeMe
Does the same thinking apply........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Wave
Remember whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger and wiser!
............to 15 pints of Stella ?
__________________
Buy it & Use it, then sell it and buy something bigger
MeMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 March 2005, 11:57   #18
Member
 
Country: UK - Wales
Town: Southampton
Boat name: DynaMoHumm/ SRV/deja
Make: Avon8.4, 5.4 & 4.777
Length: 8m +
Engine: Cat3126 Yam 90 &70
MMSI: 42
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,559
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louise
Thanks Stuart. I'll forgive you for calling me 'Louse'!
Fkkn fingers! it's sorted!
__________________
Here it comes again, I don't stand a chance
Soul possession, Got me in a trance
Pullin' me back to you - Deja Voodoo
Rogue Wave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 March 2005, 11:58   #19
Member
 
Louise's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Reading
Make: None
Length: under 3m
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,039
__________________
MUM POWER!
www.biboa.com
Scorpion RIB Group on Facebook
Louise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 March 2005, 11:59   #20
Member
 
Country: UK - Wales
Town: Southampton
Boat name: DynaMoHumm/ SRV/deja
Make: Avon8.4, 5.4 & 4.777
Length: 8m +
Engine: Cat3126 Yam 90 &70
MMSI: 42
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,559
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeMe
............to 15 pints of Stella ?
well you wouldn't do it again in ahurry would you! so the wiser bit would be proved and you elbow forearm would certainly be strengthened during the Imbibing process
__________________

__________________
Here it comes again, I don't stand a chance
Soul possession, Got me in a trance
Pullin' me back to you - Deja Voodoo
Rogue Wave is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:51.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×