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Old 20 July 2007, 10:44   #21
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Originally Posted by genoa View Post
Yep. Absolutely. Everytime

Wasn't havin' a go at the ribsters who play safe. It was the slight at us yachties not doing things cos we got a big lump underneath!

The point is, if the conditions are right and you can read and interpret good information, you can go many places that the unprepared can't.
And when did I belittle yachties? I have great respect for someone who can handle something that has the turning circle of a battleship and about the same draft!!!
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Old 20 July 2007, 10:55   #22
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I admit I have neglected paper charts because a RIB is not the ideal envirnoment for them but seeing how lacking in detail some of the electronic charts are I will carry some in future.
Ditto. Has anyone tried the Tough Chart Folios yet? Are they as good as the paper charts for detail, and easy(ish) to use on a RIB??

Andy

ps - I'm one of those that gives Bembridge ledge a WIDE berth!!
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Old 20 July 2007, 11:09   #23
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Andy,

I have laminated my Admiralty charts to A3 size. But I don't think they are any use whilst on the move unless its really calm. You really need to keep stopping to check them which sort of defeats the object of having a RIB and speeding around. Thats the main reason I take a wide berth around everything because I haven't got the time or inclination to stop and work out the most efficient route.

I get the feeling being efficient is a yachtie thing. I was on a yacht last year and got told off by the skipper when I followed the deep water channel. I could understand what he was getting at. It takes for ever to go anywhere in a yacht and every meter saved in distance travelled is a bonus.

Think I'll stick to the internal combustion engine myself. Although yacht fuel bills are a plus point and the cabin when you get to a point. Maybe when I retire !
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Old 20 July 2007, 11:10   #24
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For a start my comments were "tongue in cheek".

Secondly the OS map seems to be far more accurate than even the best charts - just look at the satellite/aerial view - the OS maps are made from those.

I have noticed many times in our area(Gower) that the OS maps are much better for close in work.
So which is it-

tongue and cheek or

are you saying OS maps are better than AC charts?

I can't say ive seen OS maps with depths marked on them and if so what do they refer to? Lowest Astronomical Tide or some other datum? As far as my charts go the whole area is marked clearly with various drying heights. As has already been said different scale of charts give different levels of information.


AC chart (1:25000) shows clearly Sharpus rocks, the run, long ledge, black rock ledge and cole rock.

Its about using the correct scale of chart for the job. Bit like chart plotters. If you have bought detailed charts for your plotter you will be able to zoom in to the same level of accuracy as the AC charts
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Old 20 July 2007, 11:13   #25
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Ditto. Has anyone tried the Tough Chart Folios yet? Are they as good as the paper charts for detail, and easy(ish) to use on a RIB??
The tough charts are ideal for RIBs, by their nature they have lost a bit of deatail but are an ideal comprimse between practical size and level of detail. Intrestingly the tough chart of Bem. Ledge show long ledge with the worst drying points 2.7m, 2.9m and 3.1m
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Old 20 July 2007, 11:33   #26
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I can't say ive seen OS maps with depths marked on them and if so what do they refer to? Lowest Astronomical Tide or some other datum?
Just to answer this part, OS maps show height information relative to Ordnance Datum Newlyn (unless you find a VERY old map which may have the defunct Liverpool datum shown). This datum is the agreed height datum for the whole of mainland Britain and is used on all OS products. You won't find any depth information on OS products.

The relationship between OS Datum and Chart Datum varies from chart to chart, and indeed port to port, so if you want to relate the two you need to look up a conversion value. For an example, Felixstowe Chart Datum is 1.95 BELOW OS Datum.
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Old 20 July 2007, 11:38   #27
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In the Bristol channel we have a tidal rise of over 14 metres on big spring tides and around 4-5 metres on neaps, coupled with that the murky 0 visibility water, sand banks all over the place that can change on a big set of springs and miles of shoreline that dry up at low water. Needles to say local knowledge is a must forget the chart plotter.
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Old 20 July 2007, 15:11   #28
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I have not used the Garmin kit, but with Navionics and CMap the data is there, and like the paper version, it depends what you have bought. If you have paid for the detailed charts you get the detail, if not you don't. How many people on the forum have bought the detail and how many rely on the preinstalled summary stuff designed for planning not navigation?



A plotter, whether it be a digital screen or a mark on a bit of paper is NOT synonomous with navigation. The later requires you to do more including understanding tidal ranges and curves. It is to easy to think that cos you can read a TomTom in the car, that you can navigate. I know since I bought the Rib I have become more lazy than when I sail, but I still check the charted depth against reality and expected for the time to see wots wot (occassionally). These skills are vital and we must encourage people to understand them so that they have a feel for what they are getting into.
I can assure you I entirely agree. I have undertaken a number of RYA courses and am qualitfied up to Sailing Dayskipper practical for tidal waters. I fully understand tidal calculations, secondary ports and all that biz. That is not to say I use it every time I go out on my rib however. There's a major difference between chartwork on a sailing boat at 5 kts and that on a rib at 35kts. For a start, tidal streams and leeway are practically irrelevant on a planing motorboat. The point of my message was that Garmin seemed to be particularly poor at illustrating the same data as is found on a paper chart. I, and I'm sure many others too, would expect a chart plotter to display the same info of a paper chart, just in an electronic form. And I'm talking about the full Mapsource product, not the preinstalled basemap. You're a better man than me if you can drive a rib and plot your positions on a paper chart with dead reckoning etc when you're bouncing around at 30+ kts.

I have little sympathy for people that go out with little or no experience or training. I have rescued a number of people who have bought the equipment (flares VHF etc) but cannot use it and end up in trouble. Education not regulation is the answer IMHO.

Rant over

keith
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Old 20 July 2007, 15:26   #29
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Ditto. Has anyone tried the Tough Chart Folios yet? Are they as good as the paper charts for detail, and easy(ish) to use on a RIB??
I looked at them, but they still only seem to cover very limited areas. I ended up getting Maptech charts on CD:

http://www.memory-map.co.uk/world_marine_charts.htm#1

And printed them out onto waterproof paper:

http://www.memory-map.co.uk/acatalog...oof_paper.html

Detail seems to match the Admiralty paper charts (attached).

Cheers

Chris
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Old 20 July 2007, 16:25   #30
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Originally Posted by Doug Stormforce View Post
So which is it-

tongue and cheek or

are you saying OS maps are better than AC charts?

I can't say ive seen OS maps with depths marked on them and if so what do they refer to? Lowest Astronomical Tide or some other datum? As far as my charts go the whole area is marked clearly with various drying heights. As has already been said different scale of charts give different levels of information.


AC chart (1:25000) shows clearly Sharpus rocks, the run, long ledge, black rock ledge and cole rock.

Its about using the correct scale of chart for the job. Bit like chart plotters. If you have bought detailed charts for your plotter you will be able to zoom in to the same level of accuracy as the AC charts
It started out tongue and cheek but the more I look at the OS maps the more impressed I am for using them to pick out coastal details.

You seem to be missing the point about the electronic charts. They are NOT all the same. You don't get the option of buying "detailed charts" with more or less detail - it's the basemap or the full chart - nothing in between. When you buy charts for a certain area that's what you get.
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