CE marking, RCD and coding

[Cookee]

Originally posted by Ian
Pro Sports can be CE marked but as all four of ours are coded to MCGA Yellow Code there is no need. If a rib was purchased as a leisure vessel it would be CE marked if required.

RIVA, good to meet you at the end of February when we launched Zebedee. Are you around this weekend?

You will have to excuse my ignorance here - I thought you couldn't sell a boat without a CE marking now or is that the RCD or have I completely lost the plot with all this paperwork?

[Manos]

Cookee, when I imported my RIB from SA to the UK, no one asked me for a CE certificate. The boat was cleared customs and got a registration. However, the boat hasa CE sticker on it, but this means nothing as I could have put it on it.
Wonder if the X-RIB built by FALCON boats do have a copy of such certificate
For your info FALCON has CE certificates for all the boats they produce.
In Greece however, they ask you to produce during customs clerance a copy of the actual the CE Certificate of the boat.
Hope that helps.

[Cookee]

Originally posted by Manos
Cookee,
Hope that helps.

Nope!

I couldn't care less what you or anybody else has been asked for or what happens in Greece - I'm talking about the regulations which has absolutely nothing to do with being caught.

As I understand it from previous posts selling or reselling a boat without a CE marking could be a problem - but only if you get caught - as a new manufacturer myself I am just trying to get things right without breaking any laws.

[Manos]

OK will spell it out 4 u Mr Cookee
The law is that the boat has to be CE marked (certified) and if you build one you should obtain (as a builder) a CE certificate. That will cost you about Euro 1,200-1,500 if you ask BV to do it (and to enlighten you a bit further BV stands for Bureau Veritas). That charge is for a Cat C boat. For Cat B is about Euro 1,000 and a bit more and for A even more than that.
Now in the UK it seems that for private (leisure boats) no one cares. As I said no one asked me to produce the CE certificate for my boat when it was imported from a non EU country.
However, as a boat builder of leisure crafts (I believe you are trying to make a leisure version of the Banana thing) you need to have a certificate if you want to sell your boats

[RIVA]

all craft from i think if i remember 97/98 have to be ce marked if sold in the eu. its not a option its law , also you are not insured if you have no ce mark on a boat built from this date , and try telling mr tradeing standards that when he knocks on the door , and belive me he does . try www.ceproof.com from the hamble it will tell you . and dont forget as a private guy you can,t sell your boat, as they can persue you for liabilaty

[Manos]

RIVA this is why I was astonished when no asked me to produce the certificate that I made a lot of fuss to get from South Africa. It seems that no one cares.
You also mentioned insurance.
Just a question, do they ask you if your boat is CE marked before they insure you. No one asked me. I can assure you!
We all know that CE marking is the law and in Europe are very stricked about it (unlike in the UK - I think ). To import any boat out of the EU it has to be CE marked. If not you cannot get a registration, sell it etc unless is inspected and certified (cost Euro 1,200-1,500 for cat C) by an Internationally recognised classification society

[Cookee]

Originally posted by Manos
OK will spell it out 4 u Mr Cookee
The law is that the boat has to be CE marked (certified) and if you build one you should obtain (as a builder) a CE certificate. That will cost you about Euro 1,200-1,500 if you ask BV to do it (and to enlighten you a bit further BV stands for Bureau Veritas). That charge is for a Cat C boat. For Cat B is about Euro 1,000 and a bit more and for A even more than that.
Now in the UK it seems that for private (leisure boats) no one cares. As I said no one asked me to produce the CE certificate for my boat when it was imported from a non EU country.
However, as a boat builder of leisure crafts (I believe you are trying to make a leisure version of the Banana thing) you need to have a certificate if you want to sell your boats

OK just for your benefit Mr Manos I'll repeat my original statement -

"You will have to excuse my ignorance here - I thought you couldn't sell a boat without a CE marking now or is that the RCD or have I completely lost the plot with all this paperwork?"

So thanks for that Mr Manos but that was what I was asking Ian in the first place.

I have had a look through what paperwork we have at work and it seems there is no exemption for RYA school boats, and having them MCGA Yellow Coded is irrelevant as far as I can tell?

Unless you are using the boat for racing there are very few exemptions - also as I understand it just owning a non CE marked craft makes the owner liable for a large fine and up to 5 years in Jail!

I suppose what I really am interested in is the exemption for RYA schools / MCGA Yellow Code, and what happens if the boats are sold, is the new owner exempt as well? I don't believe the 5 year rule applies either because the boats are not home built either.

Been in touch with CE proof in Totnes and my discussions with them agree with what Riva says.

Look forward to hearing from Ian or Prosports themselves,

[Manos]

Thank you Mr Cookee..........and good luck
Is a VERY tough market out there

[tim griffin]

here we go again
RCD is for boats used in the leisure sector and must be CE marked before being sold, Ian has got a commercial spec boat and it has been coded by MCGA and is classed as a work boat as such, if you go back to the threads on commercial license and read Paul Glatzels replies re RYA exemption it may clear thing up a little
Cookee is building a leisure version of Bannana shark and to sell
one it must be CE marked for the leisure market
this one is going to do the rounds i think.
tim
www.griffmarineservices.co.uk

[Cookee]

Tim, thanks for your reply.

1. What makes a RIB used for teaching a work boat? How do you make a RIB either a recreational craft or a workboat from the same mould?

2. If it is sold - ever - it could be used as a leisure boat and would be "illegal"?

3. The threads on commercial licences concerned the skippers tickets and the coding of the boats, neither have any bearing on wether the boat has to be CE marked I think?

4. So if I sold my boats to a school for teaching they could call them work boats, keep them for a season and then sell them on. How would the new owner stand with a 1 year old british built boat and no CE marking? Fined and in jail or scot free?

Sorry to be obtuse here I'm just trying to work out where all these exemtions are because I can't find any that could possibly apply in the regulations!

[tim griffin]

Hi Cookee
from what i can make out, you want to build a leisure version of
Bannana shark and market it, so under the RCD you must submit all plans and build spec, the boat is subjected to various test
stability and so on the list is endless, once you pass all of these you can go into production because your boat is CE marked to probably Cat c so you can sell your boat to any leisure users out there, as Paul stated the RYA negotiated a exemption from coding, all RYA training centres can only opereate in a specific area for me its the Solent, for Paul it is POOLE area meaning i cant do the intermediate from Cowes to Poole.only in my area
if i want to build a boat for commercial purposes then it must be inspected to MCGA standards, so you can have one boat but two
classifications work boats are not used by the RYA because we teach the leisure market you could build your boat and one version of it would have to comply with RCD and the other version would have to comply with the MCGA rules and regulations for commercial workboats (stricter) it is a minefield
and starts going fuzzy but contact ken and he will put you right
tim
www.griffmarineservices.co.uk

[Cookee]

Ok then - we've done some research (well ok Kevin found it!)

chapter one, article one, paragraph two, taken from

RECREATIONAL CRAFT DIRECTIVE AND
COMMENTS TO THE DIRECTIVE COMBINED
A Guide to the Application of Directive 94/25/EC of the 16 June 1994 on the
Approximation of the Laws, Procedures and Administrative Provisions of the Member
States and EEA States relating to Recreational Craft.


Reads as follows

Paragraph 2 defines the types of recreational craft covered.
These boats are defined, not by their type or means of propulsion, but:
· by their hull length of 2.5 to 24 m, and in particular
· by their intended use for sports and leisure purposes.
It is specified that chartered, i.e. hired, recreational craft are covered by the Directive, as are
recreational craft used for recreational boating training. In both cases, the activity is not a
commercial passenger transport activity but one for sports or leisure purposes.

Looking forward to everyones thoughts on the above!

[tim griffin]

yep you've got it
so build your boat get it inspected,ce marked start selling them after we have test driven it, make some money
tim
www.griffmarineservices.co.uk

[kitten]

Tim,
Your answer makes no sense.
Please REREAD your post and Cookees, then comment.
As an aside, how do the RYA broker an exemption to the EU law?
Or is this document wrong? or should we ALL just ignore it?

[Pete7]

Everyone else in United States of Europe will

[tim griffin]

kitten
cookee wants to build a leisure version of banana shark and market it, to do this he will have his boat inspected to gain rcd
ce certificate. once he has obtained this he can build the boats
and sell them. what part is not making sense.
tim
www.griffmarineservices.co.uk

[kitten]

the contradiction between you saying training boats are exempt and the guide saying they are not.

[tim griffin]

RYA training centres
teach using ribs that are recreational craft directive ce approved
eg i buy a rib from a builder of ribs, for him to sell these boats they must comply with rcd for their stated purpose ie recreational use
the RYA is the governing body, of Sailing,Motorcruising, Powerboating,and so on we teach to the leisure/recreational market, and the post from Cookee explains it. the RYA
have negotiated a exemption from commercial licensing as explained by Paul Glatzel equal to MCGA code 6, 3 miles from a NPD AND 3 MILES OFFSHORE we are not excempt from the rules
re RCD but from commercial workboats because we operate within a specific area i could not build a rib from scratch
use it to teach and then sell it on. It would not pass the RYA inspection for the training school
tim
www.griffmarineservices.co.uk

[kitten]

OK easy yes or no answers,

do you say the training school boats exempt from RCD/CE comliance?

[tim griffin]

no!
tim
www.griffmarineservices.co.uk