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Old 28 September 2016, 03:35   #11
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Carson Leisure RIBs

Of possibly more interest to most readers here are the leisure versions we are offering based on the same rugged construction specs as those already described. While emphasis of these designs is on the professional market Probond Marine are offering a more glammed up version for the serious leisure user. Built to the same heavy-duty specs they are being offered in various colours for the hulls and collars, optional teak decks and other luxuries can also be supplied.

In addition various deck and cabin options are available including a fully enclosed wheelhouse and thanks to the longer than usual waterline of these designs roomier cabins. This is further enhanced when the raised topsides and D section collars are chosen which provide substantially increased internal beam and deck space.

As with previous Carsons variety and flexibility are also the key words when it comes to powering these hulls. Customers can choose between outboards or inboards driving through Z (stern) drives, surface drives and unusually for a stepped hull, a single jet unit. This is possible due to the unique forward positioned and tapered delta step design. Three basic models are available, a 7.5, 8.5 and a 9.5 metre. With these versions the new Carson Interceptors would be great for cruising, expedition, diving and superyacht tenders.
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Old 28 September 2016, 04:31   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Carson View Post
Of possibly more interest to most readers here are the leisure versions we are offering based on the same rugged construction specs as those already described. While emphasis of these designs is on the professional market Probond Marine are offering a more glammed up version for the serious leisure user. Built to the same heavy-duty specs they are being offered in various colours for the hulls and collars, optional teak decks and other luxuries can also be supplied.

In addition various deck and cabin options are available including a fully enclosed wheelhouse and thanks to the longer than usual waterline of these designs roomier cabins. This is further enhanced when the raised topsides and D section collars are chosen which provide substantially increased internal beam and deck space.
Well now you've done it, you just opened the genie's bottle. You better start getting those models drawn up pretty quickly so you can post them.

Having said and don't let this comment slow you down on getting those cruisy schematics going but I think most here are not the norm and are probably interested equally in the industrial versions if not more than the typical yacht med type models but it would be really good to also see your interpretation of a med. & cabin versions. I could imagine a cabin version would be fantastic for cruising the Lochs.

The lines are very interesting and while different, one of my 5.8C VSR rib with a plomb bow has some similarities but still different and quite older and needs a little tweaking in the design. I love using it.

VSR is coming with a 8.8m PRO (not mine) that looks even more similar and does take care some of the negative aspects of the 5.8C (on the beam in a sea state) but still not nearly as advanced in hull shape that yours appear to have. Yours looks very impressive and will be very interested in hearing about the sea trials.

I'm glad to see that this concept is starting to gain traction and getting validation.

I love having the long waterlines with the shorter LOA. While it may not be traditional looking, it sure does have a lot of positives that can not be overlooked.

Cheers

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Old 29 September 2016, 07:25   #13
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Thanks Sailrib for your interest and comment. While vertical stems are relatively new in ribs they have been around for a very long time indeed although some of my rib designs from the early 80's also had semi wave-piercing bows. Just look back at the old sailing craft and even early powerboats.

Through long experience those designers and builders knew a thing or two from years of experience in working craft in real conditions. Same may be said about stepped hulls on early powerboats such as MTBs, etc. More speed, more internal volume and easier motion in a seaway are just some of the potential benefits of this concept. I've simply taken these proven features and put them together with my own experience in designing and building boats for over 40 years (particularly ribs for the professional market) into one package with these new designs.

While design work is ongoing with the other versions based on these hulls I do now have a few 3D images to give some idea of what one leisure version may look like when simply a lighter shade of hull and teak decks are used. While a fully fledged cruising version may have a larger cabin than shown here and a fully enclosed helm station also if required this model still has what may be described as reasonable weekend accommodation within the console. Up to 3 berths, standing headroom (just!) and even room for a loo and basic cooking facilities are possible with the standard console set up. With a Bimini T top and removable side screens this version would still make a nice cruiser or expedition boat while still retaining a big deck area, even on the 750 and 850 models. More so when outboards are fitted.

When we have more images available I will get them posted. In the meanwhile we'll be posting more on the mould build and 1st hull fit out.
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Old 30 September 2016, 01:59   #14
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I have had slim bow designs on my laptop since 2007. Inspired by Mary slim initially. Unfortunately I am not a boat designer and I could never agree with myself on step placement for pitch control and bow steer stability. It's a simple concept, longer waterline and less up and down. I'll be watching this thread with renewed inspiration. Best of luck with the project.
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Old 30 September 2016, 04:14   #15
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Thanks Sailrib for your interest and comment. While vertical stems are relatively new in ribs they have been around for a very long time indeed although some of my rib designs from the early 80's also had semi wave-piercing bows.
That's a very aggressive looking hull design, and definitely something a bit different from the run of the mill. How do you stop it bow steering in a following sea though?
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Old 30 September 2016, 06:42   #16
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How do you stop it bow steering in a following sea though?
You've taken the words out of my mouth JK. It'll be interesting to find out how it performs!

I was in Buckie harbour with a few hours to spare a few weeks ago - pity I hadn't known of the project being there, it would have been an interesting visit!
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Old 30 September 2016, 07:35   #17
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Looking great so far, look forward to watching this develop
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Old 30 September 2016, 07:36   #18
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Discussion on Bow Steering

Thanks guys for your comments and question raised on the issue of possible bow steering. I accept that aggressive is a fair term to describe the appearance of this hull design. When I set out to create the next generation Carson as my usual I paid little to no heed of fashion and or looks. I wanted a serious working tool to do a job and do it well. Consequently every line, every feature, was drawn for a specific purpose.

Without going into too many tedious and technical design details none of my or indeed many other similar stems have this issue. So to answer your question I will do my best in terms that hopefully may help other readers also who may not be familiar with this term 'bow steering' or its action, causes and prevention.

If we accept bow steering to be a generated force caused by wave or sea action lifting the stern while at the same time 'sinking' of the bow we can have the bow taking over control from the after end of the hull, i.e. the hull, rudders and or drives losing relative grip and therefore directional control. In more severe conditions this can lead to broaching (uncontrolled slewing to one side and potentially rolling over into a capsize) or even pitch poling (stern tripping over bow). Either of these could ruin your day!

Now while this may be a possibility in any any boat in difficult conditions and if handled poorly it is something that may be mitigated through good design (and good seamanship) and is arguably more of an issue with a vertical stemmed boat in more severe conditions, particularly when travelling fast down the face of a big sea. This is because the fine lined vertical stem of many wave-piercing boats acts like a knife edge with little or no reserve bouyancy to generate sufficient lift before disaster strikes. In larger vessels this is less of an issue as relatively speaking waves are generally not so formidable as the same wave would be to a substantially smaller vessel. Also, while a fully fledged wave piercer is designed to penetrate through a wave and come out the other side, rather than ride hobby horse like over it, this is only acceptable in fully decked and enclosed boats. But not good in an open small boat such as a rib. Hence I describe my hull as a semi wave-piercing design and not to be confused with other types.

My hulls are designed to slice through moderate seas and chop with minimal hobby horsing and therefore more comfort and potentially more speed yet when faced with steeper and bigger seas still has sufficient reserve bouyancy to lift over them keeping the wet stuff out and the crew and deck relatively dry. Unlike some other wave piercing designs the hull rocker forward (the curve upward of the keel line) rises to the static waterline thus reducing any tendency to be overly grippy reducing any bow steering tendency. In addition, as with all Carson RIBs, I have incorporated extra large spray rails and chines right to the stem and well above the waterline that will act like the leading ends of a ski generating massive lift and further reserves of bouyancy. This is further enhanced with the square bow and tube as with all Carsons.

All this is also counterbalanced by having an exceptional grip of the water in the after ends of the hull. This is achieved by way of a deep V of 24 degrees in these designs, a flatter V would be less grippy and more inclined to slide off track. In addition a very pronounced spray chine and 4 additional spray rails in the after sections act like rails (please see the attached image). Combined, these features act like arrow flights assisting in keeping a good grip of the water aft and allowing the helm, whether outboards, rudders or stern drives, do the job that the helmsman feeds in.

All Carsons are known for above average 'grippy' hulls developed mainly for the military user where precise and accurate high speed turns and manoeuvres are a requirement. These Interceptor hulls will build on that advantage and at the same time remaining safe, seakindly and relatively comfortable dry boats.

I hope this explanation goes some way to answering your question and although is not everything has hopefully been helpful.

And finally, I would add, that whatever type of hull design, the safest and best results are achieved when the helmsman knows what he's got, knows it's traits, practices good seamanship and uses a good dollop of common sense!
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Old 30 September 2016, 08:55   #19
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Barry, if you have a demo boat, it has to be called "Dreadnought" it'd be worth buying one just in order to use the name😄 All the best with the project.


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Old 30 September 2016, 08:57   #20
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CARSON Interceptor RIBs

Barry, thanks for taking the time to write such a detailed reply. I can see that your T-shaped bow has loads more recovery than other vertical stem designs, and what you say about keeping the back end grippy makes lots of sense too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Carson View Post
Unlike some other wave piercing designs the hull rocker forward (the curve upward of the keel line) rises to the static waterline thus reducing any tendency to be overly grippy reducing any bow steering tendency.

That's interesting, because it's not how it looks from the pictures at first glance. I'm guessing the boat won't actually sit horizontally as in the drawing though, so the waterline is going to be more like the green line than the red?

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