Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 
Old 09 November 2002, 13:36   #1
Member
 
Country: Finland
Length: no boat
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 113
Capsized Rib

Two firemen allmost drowned when their Delta RIB capsized in 37 kts wind near the Port of Helsinki. Firemen went out to test the boat engines and after few minutes ride cross-swell capsized the boat. Both men went over board and after that waves threw the boat over the rocks (photo).

People on the shore alarmed rescue units and men were rescued.

Firemen had to spent 15 minutes in the water and they were hypothermic. Both men wore life wests but NO dry suits! They were very lucky that the accident happend pretty near the shore and the rescue units were so close. Another 15 minutes in cold water without dry suit and end result could have been somethin else than two survived firemen.

Jari
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	deltarib.jpg
Views:	408
Size:	18.8 KB
ID:	1345  
__________________

__________________
Jari Hjerppe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09 November 2002, 18:30   #2
Member
 
Country: Ireland
Town: Ireland
Boat name: Ally Cat
Make: Several
Length: 6m +
Engine: Several
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 333
Hi Jari,

I think I'll send their boss our training and consultancy brochure !

No bother to us to travel to or sell a few dry suits to Finland !!!!

Best wishes,

Stuart
www.powerboat.org
__________________

__________________
Stuart McNamara
Club Powerboat.ie
www.powerboat.org
Powerboat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 November 2002, 05:09   #3
Member
 
Country: Ireland
Town: Dublin.
Boat name: Tender 2.
Make: Valiant DR 600
Length: 6m +
Engine: 150 Optimax
MMSI: coming soon !
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 443
Quote:
Originally posted by Powerboat
Hi Jari,

I think I'll send their boss our training and consultancy brochure !

No bother to us to travel to or sell a few dry suits to Finland !!!!

Best wishes,

Stuart
www.powerboat.org
Good one Stuart. The Irish never miss a genuine opportunity ! See you soon for the level 2 course.

Luke.
__________________
Scotty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 November 2002, 06:26   #4
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Great Harwood, Lancs
Boat name: Tigger II
Make: Bombardier Aerodeck
Length: 3m +
Engine: Tohatsu 25HP
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 626
Personal limits, not the RIB's

Hi folks

It looks like the RIB has self righting capability, from looking at the pic.

Sounds to me like putting people in somthing they dont know how to use or had enough experience with.

1) A 47Kts while high a RIB the size of the one in the pic should have been able to handle.

2) If they was testing engines that suggests they had been fixed or had some work done on them. If this was the case should they have be out in these conditions to do a "test".
If it was a routine test could it not have waited?.

2) If they did turn it over why didnt they self right

3) As said before why was they not wearing drysuits

would be interesting so see what type of rescue craft was sent out, not a RIB by any chance.

Maybe a good thought for us all though having all the right gear does not makes us safe, you need to know what your doing, know how to use the gear and most inportant know YOUR limits, which may be much less than what the RIB can handle.

Regards Gary, (who wont be taking his new 7.8 out in anything more than he would have gone out with his 4.8, for a while at least.)
__________________
Garygee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 November 2002, 08:15   #5
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: SOUTHAMPTON
Boat name: Won't get Fooled Again
Make: Ribtec
Length: 6.5
Engine: Honda 130
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 888
I am presuming that Finnland has the equivalent of the marine accident investigation board it will be interesting to see how these guys come out of it. They get points for having lifejackets but not much else. I am sure the firechief will be discussing the pros and cons of their safety preparation with them.

Having been chucked out of my RIB once or twice I can tell you that even with the Kill Cord operatig properly the boat travels a fair distance. 47 knots of wind is also going to effect your ability to rejoin the boat as I reckon it is more affected by the wind than the (recently)ex crew.


I dare say that Batfalcon has a formula for proving that!

Does anybody ever read the MAIB website, theres a very interesting one about a nightime return journey where the driver had forgotton to attach the killcord to himself.
__________________
thewavehumper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 November 2002, 08:53   #6
Member
 
Country: UK - Wales
Town: Aberystwyth
Boat name: Undecided
Make: Undecided
Length: Undecided
Engine: Undecided
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 605
People like that careless don't deserve to be able to drive RIBs like that. My solution is they give me the RIB for use as a tender fo my SIB

Matt
__________________
narked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 November 2002, 12:00   #7
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Somerset
Boat name: Ashling
Make: Scorpion
Length: 8m +
Engine: Mercury 225
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 266
Capsize

Having just spent the last two days in the Helsinki area on business and witnessed the snow plows in action at the airport on Saturday evening while waiting for my flight home, I think the two crew were very lucky indeed. The sea at Lovisio 100km east of Helsinki was icing over.
My question is, should a safety harness be used in conditions where a capsize is a possibility? Yachtsmen routinely wear a harness. to remain with the boat.
__________________
Chris Hornidge

www.henshaw.co.uk
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 November 2002, 14:05   #8
Member
 
Pete7's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Gosport
Boat name: April Lass
Make: Moody 31
Length: 9m +
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,899
If they had been driving the boat properly if the first place then they wouldn't have needed safety harnesses. For Gods sake thats got to be a 7m plus delta! what on earth did they do to capsize such a well designed boat? unless of course they were perhaps fooling around with a boat they didn't have to pay for or maintain.

Another example of people in a government service that know squat about boats. Sadly ours (and that includes the MOD) are just as bad. Should know spent 22 years working for them.

Makes me smile when rib manufactures advertise the fact that they sell ribs to government departments, like they are experts, ha, not! and our senior service isn't doing very well at the moment either, strike one destroyer and now a sub from the fleet. So put yourselves on standy for call up, we might need your rib in the Gulf shortly. "Ships taken up from trade (STUFT)" I think its called.
Pete
(another irate tax payer)
__________________
Pete7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 November 2002, 14:38   #9
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: SOUTHAMPTON
Boat name: Won't get Fooled Again
Make: Ribtec
Length: 6.5
Engine: Honda 130
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 888
I am sure the Army guys make the best ribdrivers,

Christopher in answer to your question I tend to wear a clip during night time and if its rough, but I clip two together so that if the boat does capsize then I can swim to the side of it as opposed to be stuck underneath.

Hopefully I won't have to prove that my thoery is correct.
__________________
thewavehumper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 November 2002, 17:05   #10
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Portsmouth
Boat name: Not sure
Make: ABC/Priddy
Length: 10m +
Engine: 2 x 500 FPT
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 928
Ok. Boat still up the right way. Self righting gear still intact.
Some one wasn't holding on tight enough! I wonder if the driver had the kill switch conected? Any bets he didnt have? Alan P
__________________
Alan Priddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 November 2002, 17:43   #11
Member
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Highlands
Boat name: Quicksilver
Make: Quicksilver
Length: 3m +
Engine: Mariner 15hp
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,771
Quote:
wear a clip during
?

( )
__________________
Small boat - BIG truck

www.photo4x4.co.uk
Keith Hart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 November 2002, 06:50   #12
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: SOUTHAMPTON
Boat name: Won't get Fooled Again
Make: Ribtec
Length: 6.5
Engine: Honda 130
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 888
Yep i find that also provides sustained enjoyment at night time also, but what I was referring to was a sailing saferty strap which clips on to the boat and the other end attaches to the hoop on your lifejacket or an earing if you are not wearing a lifejacket. The people I sail with call them clips. sorry for the confusion.

I never thought about using one ( a clip) on the Rib but when I went through the RNLI safety check the guy brought up two points I'd overlooked. No water in my grab pack(doh) and I didn't have any provision for clipping on at night ( hence increasing the chance of parting company with they boat)

I felt the advice was good and have adopted it as SOP nowadays.
__________________
thewavehumper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 November 2002, 07:21   #13
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Edenbridge
Boat name: Scorpion
Make: Scorpion 8.5mtr
Length: 8m +
Engine: 315hp Yanmar Diesel
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 696
Clips

I'm not sure I agree with the clips. I think i would rather be thrown clear of the boat if it was to go over. I reckon if you were strapped in you would crash into the seats , A frame, engine whilst being towed along at 30 + knots till the boat stopped. If you had a long strap you could even go through the props. Ouch.

Julian
__________________
Julian Lyas
Julian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 November 2002, 08:16   #14
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Portsmouth
Boat name: Not sure
Make: ABC/Priddy
Length: 10m +
Engine: 2 x 500 FPT
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 928
The only sensible "clip" is to use one no longer than from your waist to an attachment between your legs when you are in the standing position. Before the smutty remarks, this has nothing to do with nipple rings and attachments etc Alan P
__________________
Alan Priddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 November 2002, 08:53   #15
Administrator
 
John Kennett's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Brighton
Length: 3m +
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 6,958
Chris, Stuart

There is no way that I would use a lifeline on a RIB. In my view they are likely to subtsantially increase problems rather than improving safety.

Stuart, who did your RNLI safety check? I question their knowledge of fast boat operation! It may just be on their check list because they should be used on yachts . . .

Imagine coming out of a fast RIB on the end of a piece of rope. Worse still, imagine being attached to a capsizing RIB!

No thanks. No way.

John
__________________
John Kennett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 November 2002, 09:44   #16
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Edenbridge
Boat name: Scorpion
Make: Scorpion 8.5mtr
Length: 8m +
Engine: 315hp Yanmar Diesel
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 696
Straps

I completely agree with John. I think they are a bad idea for a fast moving craft. Especially if it capsizes at speed. You would be smashed to pieces if U were attached to the boat.

Julian
__________________
Julian Lyas
Julian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 November 2002, 12:21   #17
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: SOUTHAMPTON
Boat name: Won't get Fooled Again
Make: Ribtec
Length: 6.5
Engine: Honda 130
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 888
I am glad I don't carry a big ego nowadays, Thanks for the comments My SOP will be changed so no more clips, I'll just make sure the footsraps are well used.

I got the sea check in Ireland and I may well right to the RNLI (still a venerable and august institution in my view) and ask the to reconsider the advice they gave

Cheers
Stuart
__________________
thewavehumper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 November 2002, 13:12   #18
Administrator
 
John Kennett's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Brighton
Length: 3m +
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 6,958
Stuart

I don't like footstraps either! Some people swear by them, but they have contributed to more than one broken ankle.

Non-slip decking and some decent hand holds are important things, with good seats making a very useful contribution to safety too. However the most important thing you can take on a RIB is a heathy dose of common sense!

I suspect that this accident happened simply because it wasn't thought through. A quick spin in a fast boat to check the engines over is always going to be tempting, but demands as much respect as any other cruise -- especially in poor conditions.

On the subject of the RNLI boat check scheme, my understanding is that inspections are carried out by volunteers who may not be lifeboat crew, and may be working from a tick list rather than from experience.

John
__________________
John Kennett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 November 2002, 14:43   #19
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: SOUTHAMPTON
Boat name: Won't get Fooled Again
Make: Ribtec
Length: 6.5
Engine: Honda 130
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 888
re the boat check you are right these guys/girls are not lifeboat crew and they do work from a checklist . My point is that the checklist should say " not suitable for RIBS" or something like that

I was very happy with the safety check and would still recommend, it particularly to newcomers, but I now regards that one piece of advice as suspect and would like to see it changed/justified.

When the combined experience of Julian, Alan and yourself all agree on a point then it's worth listening.

By the way where can you get hold of this common sense stuff !

regards
Stuart
__________________
thewavehumper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 November 2002, 14:47   #20
Member
 
Country: Other
Make: FB 55
Length: 10m +
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 1,711
Here you go Stuart.
__________________

__________________
Charles is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:03.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×