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Old 28 December 2002, 09:16   #61
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Thanks Mike for your imformation,

There are + and - with all decisions,The window debate is not an easy one as you know.

I have looked long and hard and I have taken note of recent developments IE Glass and Plasticks and strength adn indeed a sandwich of the two will sort out any strength issue.

First on the problem of glare,I am of the opinion that providing your instruments are placed in such a position far enough away from the verticle of your screen then this reflection at night, will not be to much of a problem.As far as heat in the summer goes this problem can be dealt with bye adequate ventilation.Strength of the screen and its housing is dealt with at design stage.A backward facing screen shows less to the weather and is more airodynamic than a forward trawler type screen and therfore a sea can roll over as opposed to hitting a upright front door.

The new MCA rib designed for offshore Coast guard duties and built bye Vosper with a unit cost of 250k+

www.hotribs.com/03articles/79-halmatic/Halmatic has indeed gone down this route.

Also see http://www.knrm.nl/vloot.html
who use rescue craft and are developed at a unit cost of 600k plus.

Both are desighned for offshore use.
I indeed owned my own 37ft yacht and I find it interesting that you also have ended up going down this ultimate cruising route and have ended up with a cruising rib.

As far as the RNLI are concerned there new offshore boat fsb2 also now has rear facing windows as apposed to the old arun
Type.

As far as drawings go I indeed only have CAD drawings and unfortunatley I cannot publish these yet but will speak to the designers /Builders after New yr and see weather they can muster something up.
I am going to the London boatshow and will have a set with me on the 2nd were I am going to show Manos the boat and if your there your very welcome to a peek.

Crazyhorse


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Old 28 December 2002, 09:38   #62
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Manos,

I went from putting a diesel in an atlantic 21 with a canvas cover.to buying a hull only and fitting a cabin,to purchasing a 10mtr hull and fitting an aluminum wheelhouse,to buying a part compleate Rib hull and fitting a marine ply cabin myself.

Then I went to try and buy a 2nd hand Donn Shead hull and sorting that to contacting Mould makers and trying to fit somebodys rib cabin mould to my hull.

I then went down the route of trying to buy a hull only but nobody would give any guarantees on the hull,and now the rules are so stringent that unless you are in the buisness or have accsess to a fabrication plant it just isnt worth it.

Rib Developments may seem like just a hull and a tube on them,but they are all highley teck pieces of equipment and you could loose everthying.

In the end the cheapist and safest way is to pay the money as besides the hull and cabin ,costs for all your equipment is the same.

I can say here and now for most this route of self development and self build is a highley dangerous financialy disaster route in todays Marketplace with all the regulations for offshore craft.

Good luck if you want to re invent the wheel, but please be carfull as you could be the only collector of your dream boat.

crazyhorse
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Old 28 December 2002, 10:09   #63
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Brian Thanks for your Reply,

The main thing here is that we all are happy with our boats,they will vary from a design point and we will all use them for different things and indeed at different times and coditions.

Im interested in the Yanmar problem with Bravo 3 legs.I was going down that route and discussed with them which leg would be best suited,there advice for my application which wasnt speed but longevity in a cruising roll was Bravo 2x as this is there commercial leg.

In there own words they hadnt had one back.

They informed me I may have a problem with torque as it has a single prop therfore I may need Trim Tabs and I would loose aprox 2 knts.

In the end I went for the Volvo Kad300/ Duo prop dpg leg as I felt happy with that decision.I prommise if my engine /Leg couses me problems I will most definatley tell you.

There are some interesting engine Developments in my opinion going on at present,Cummins/Mercruiser are bringing out a maybe 320/370hp leg and engine,electronic my sources tell me.

Yanmar will go electronic injectors,and will source a new leg supplier,

I looked at the Konrad Drive but with the all up weight and expence of a gearbox and losses at the meaty end It wasnt practical.





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Old 28 December 2002, 10:17   #64
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Crazyhorse

Thanks for the tips. I am aware about all these rules and regs. But bare in mind that since this is an X-Coastgurad patrol high speed hull (I assume that it has all the necessary papers of class and seaworthiness) I don't see that there is anything wrong in revamping it and using it as a cabin RIB.
It will cost me much less than buing a brand new or even second hand cabin RIB, this is a is 12 mtrs LOA and is made just for going on rugh weather at high speeds. With the added pontoons it will be the BUSINESS!!! I recon.
In Greece you can pass a boat through all the red tape and get it certified CE and cat B provided is checked by the Coastgurad relative body and is found to be built in accordance with these rulles and regs.
More or less the same as for a ship. However, the only difference being that the calssification society here is the Coastguard instead.
Therefore, since I intend to do everything right (which I think I can with the help of a naval architect and engineer friend of mine and my basic knowledge) I cannot see that there is a problem and I'll have a briliant seaworthy all weather boat that would have cost me something like 20,000 tops tops inc the engines (2xdielsel 250 bhp each with jets also will get 2nd hand from the auction).
Any way is all academic at present as will need to get the huill first. When tha's done will talk about the rest.


PS labour and parts in Greece are a LOOOOT cheaper than the UK so far LOLOL
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Old 28 December 2002, 10:28   #65
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Hi Manos,

The reasons for not attempting that project are so numerouse that I dont know where to start,Therfore I aint going to.

Good luck me old mateee and I look forward to seeing you at the boatshow.
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Old 28 December 2002, 14:20   #66
TIM
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At the moment you can see from my profile that I have Hysucat (amazing boat) along with Gavin. I was hopeing to go the cabin rib route in about 12-18 months, Dose anyone have any experance of Redbays... from what I hear they are unbrakeable and the have a wraparound consoule with a soft top, instead of a full cabin.

Brian has confirmed what I thought about small cabined boats , that the cabin is pretty usless. thats why I like the Redbay, Cabin protection but, you can 'put the hood down' in the summer.

On this years 'RI Round Ireland' event, which I think Brain was on, The guys said that when the going got tough the Redbays got going... I would like to know more...
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Old 28 December 2002, 17:50   #67
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Tim,

My son spends his school holidays driving the RIB's shown in the link below, they are 12mtr twin 240hp with marinised landcruiser engines, they are Redbays and the ones I think you were on about. If there is anything specific you want to know, just tell me.

http://www.puffin.org.uk/framehome3.html and click on the Rib diving section on the left side, the pictures of the RIB's are at the bottom of that page. BRILLIANT machines so he says.

Pete
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Old 28 December 2002, 19:09   #68
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Well Tim,

The Redbay9.1 was my personal 2nd choice of new boat.

But it aint that easy and I will explain.
I did not want 2 diesels.

The reasons being.

1 - 2 X fuel bills.
2- 2 x maintanance bills.
3-Unshore what price diesel is going to be in the U.K next few yrs.
4-Unshore what is happening with emmisions standards in next few yrs?
5-Unshore about leg/drive capabilitiesof engines supplied with boat.
6-Engine tecknology is changing real fast for me and I wasnt prepared to be twice as vunerable financialy, if I ended up with old tecknology engines.
7-Wanted the performance and speed and range of a single powerful diesel.Eg A single Diesel rated at 275hp at the prop will equate to aproximatley two 165hp engines and legs withought the weight and give a larger long distance range.
8- Lost Room on the rib,you can give up 2mtrs off the back end,on a 9mtr boat and your back to a 7mtr boat.
9-I am not convinced of twin diesel applications for ribs in this smaller size and becouse of my happy cynickal attitude, I decided to buck the trend,and go for makeing the boat builder less proffit.
10-4 stroke tecknology is now with us and I Use an outboard to get us home at displacement speed 6knts.Its a Honda bf30 it gives a range with 15 gallons of aprox 100miles from a safe haven.

If I were buying a rib today of which I am not.

I would ask for a GZ curve and check with the RYA for guidence in reading it.

No boat can be sold in Europe with a cat B Offshore CE mark unless it passes Iso 12217 unless it passed before the stability test came into force.

I do not know weather the Redbay has this Ticket I presume it does, but please check.

In the Press at the moment there are a number of things to be carfull of.ie buying ex work boats and using them for leisure use. They may have to be re tested and if they fail your in Cat C inshore waters with your boat.

The people to watch out for in the future in boating, are the insurance companies as if you give them a reason for no pay out then that will happen.

As you can see I dont go with the flow and I hope you make the right choice for you,I personaly like the Redbay and think, If it has the right statistical GZ imformation and you can get your prefered choice of engine/s and its half as good as it looks,then you will not go to far wrong with that for an open boat.

I looked at increasing the front Cabin so as to stay overnight,but after My choice of engine and the changes I wanted to make and the costs, I decided to hang fire and get what I really wanted.Which was a Cabin rib with a wheelhouse.

Also in my opinion If a tube is glued on only, then it will come off at great speed,its all down to the tube and carrier and the fixing points of that tube to that carrier. you do not need to have a Hard nose on all offshore ribs.

This is what I have learnt so far and these are my personal opinions of course.

I hope there is something in what I say that will be of help to you both and maybe you will stick to your flying machine,it sounds like a great bit of fun your having with it..


Good luck

Crazyhorse


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Old 30 December 2002, 03:44   #69
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Cabin RIB Windows

This thread has so much in it that interests me that I'm going to post replies bit by bit. There are only so many hours in the day!

Quote:
Originally posted by crazyhorse
There are + and - with all decisions,The window debate is not an easy one as you know.
Well, I have to say, you make a convicing case for the backward sloping windscreen. I looked at all your links and the Dutch boats really do look the business.

On the other hand, the Coastguard design shown on the Hotribs story did not excite me at all. 250K for a boat that looks like a box and that can only produce 25knots with two diesels is not for me at all. Besides, I myself, wouldn't touch Halmatic with a barge pole.

As far as glare is concerned, I'm not sure I'm with you on this point. Ventilation alone will not stop you feeling as if you're in a greenhouse on a sunny day. You need shade, believe me.

I see the coastguard boat has aircon and that may be one way to go. Nevertheless, I still feel that shade from the direct effect of sun overhead is necessary with or without cold air.

Forward slope or backward? Thanks to this discussion, I'll now keep more of an open mind on the subject until such time as I get to the moment when I start to design Magellan Alpha's replacement.

Unfortunately I'm not going to be in London for this year's Boat Show. Will have to wait until the RIBnet gathering to see your plans, if I may.

Cheers.
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Old 30 December 2002, 05:53   #70
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Yep,

Your right on the Halmatic jobee,I am of the same opinion.It aint there money they spend so they use the old boys network,and thats what they end up with for 250k?Design costs proberbly triple.
The link was used to demonstraight that Backward facing windows were used in the design,and that there seems to be a move in that direction.
Jet Drive boats still arnt proven to me and there losses at the meaty end are to great due to weight and power losses.If you want to Cherry pick Tecknology in the Rib World then you will have no friends in the Rib trade e.g. you cant buy an Aluminum boat in this country withought a jet drive or you can Sir, but they will have there profit out the boat on other things.
Its like most things You can have my boat for x but it comes with not so good new engines or have my great engines but it comes with a not so good boat.In the Boat sales business everything is worked out for profit,unless you do what your Predecessor did and what I am doing, you will end up with a boat built for proffit,not built for a job.Very different animals the problem is they look the same at first in the marina.

I agree that forward/Back sun cover on a hot day is a problem,your idea of car bubble wrap may go a long way towardes sorting this out. The size/volume of the forward windows will be of significance with the Greenhouse effect.

On the Niad link there is a 12mtr Patrol Rib with Forward facing windows,so you can see what it could looks like.Withought spending a penny.

Your Idea about aircon is a thought and indeed when I find some sun if its needed I may go down that route.

See you soon

Crazyhorse
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