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Old 24 January 2013, 04:56   #31
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As a broker I would say the following:-

If the broker has a proper "sales agreement" and relevant supporting documentation (MCA bill of sale, etc), then he is probably going to be able to successfully argue that he has done nothing wrong. However, we can probably all agree that he has at least been "negligent" in his duties.

"Due diligence" by the broker should have uncovered the confusion with the age of the boat and engine (that's pretty hard to get wrong), and if you know anything about ribs you would know that owners that have built in fuel tanks but run on portables probably are experiencing problems with water in the tanks.

I feel very sorry for Eric (although to be fair we have only heard one side of the story) and would hope that the broker would feel a duty of care to at least offer some help to resolve the issues.

I hope you get somewhere with the broker Eric, but I fear a legal route is probably going to be expensive and fruitless!
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Old 24 January 2013, 05:15   #32
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Originally Posted by Dry Run View Post
As a broker I would say the following:-


"Due diligence" by the broker should have uncovered the confusion with the age of the boat and engine (that's pretty hard to get wrong), and if you know anything about ribs you would know that owners that have built in fuel tanks but run on portables probably are experiencing problems with water in the tanks.
That's what i asked, did the previous owner use the internal tank? i was told no because he regulary changes boat for his activity so he use a small portable tank, because we all know there are problem of water condensation with inox tank...
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Old 24 January 2013, 05:16   #33
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Good brokers stay in business, bad ones don't.

I'd feel they were a very bad one - its not hard to date an engine and hull or to actually be honest. What goes around comes around...
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Old 24 January 2013, 09:34   #34
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Dont really know anything about this subject , but common sense makes me think the broker has miss sold the boat due to the question of the wrongly advertised age of the boat and engine . It would be simple for the broker to check the age and he should have the knowledge how to do this whereas the private customer may not .The best way forward would be a refund on what should have been the difference in value due to the age difference which could be used to help sort out the fuel tank .
But some brokers (only a few ) will not be helpful in this kind of matter as they are normally covered by their sales contracts which would mean they have no liability in this type of case although honest decency should make them want to be helpful .
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Old 24 January 2013, 14:44   #35
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contact the trading standards office in the area you bought it.
Trade descriptions act.
1 1a Applies a false trade description to goods in the course of a trade or business
1 1b supplies any goods to which a false trade description is applied in the course of a trade or business.
The age of the boat/engine if wrong are the trade descriptions.
The broker is clearly in a trade or business.
The word is supplies not sells
The defence is that the accused used ALL due diligence and took ALL reasonable precautions to avoid commision of the offence. ALL, not just some.
OR something like that....its been a long time....thank goodness

I'm sure Poly will correct the errors
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Old 24 January 2013, 14:55   #36
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Had all this recently when I took my boat in for a service & the dealer ruined the engine. Contacted trading standards etc etc.
Sadly the dealer charged me 470 to get my boat & ruined engine back & my only option was to go down the route of taking him to court with all the costs & no guarantee of success & the possibility of losing & paying their costs.
It was a well known dealer based in Skipton not some back street outfit so I would suggest you've little chance of getting anywhere if the dealer chooses not to assist you! Some people just want the deal & are not interested in helping customers. There are others (some on here) that I would have no hesitation in reccomending!
Caveat Emptor
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Old 24 January 2013, 15:03   #37
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Originally Posted by wavelength View Post
contact the trading standards office in the area you bought it.
Trade descriptions act.
1 1a Applies a false trade description to goods in the course of a trade or business
1 1b supplies any goods to which a false trade description is applied in the course of a trade or business.
The age of the boat/engine if wrong are the trade descriptions.
The broker is clearly in a trade or business.
The word is supplies not sells
The defence is that the accused used ALL due diligence and took ALL reasonable precautions to avoid commision of the offence. ALL, not just some.
OR something like that....its been a long time....thank goodness

I'm sure Poly will correct the errors
Again that correct in every sense but law, if the broker has put that disclaimer I previously posted within the contract I fear that will kill any claims as they've put the onus onto the buyer to fully satisfy themselves its as described, even if that means instructing a surveyor etc. The only way to then sue is if the broker has misrepresented the facts, proving that will be difficult

The buyers better advised trying to go down the moral route, where hopefully the broker will assist the buyer in getting some recompense. That could be leaning on the original seller (brokers client) to refund for inaccuracy (assuming they supplied the detail) or maybe forgoing their own commission to resolve the problems ?

I just think if you go in too heavy handed it may make them come out fighting, some times a little tact goes a long way!

Peter @ Boatsandoutboards4sale ~ www.BoatsandOutboards4Sale.co.uk ~ 07930 421007
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Old 24 January 2013, 15:05   #38
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Originally Posted by Boats&Outboards View Post
Again that correct in every sense but law, if the broker has put that disclaimer I previously posted within the contract I fear that will kill any claims as they've put the onus onto the buyer to fully satisfy themselves its as described, even if that means instructing a surveyor etc. The only way to then sue is if the broker has misrepresented the facts, proving that will be difficult

The buyers better advised trying to go down the moral route, where hopefully the broker will assist the buyer in getting some recompense. That could be leaning on the original seller (brokers client) to refund for inaccuracy (assuming they supplied the detail) or maybe forgoing their own commission to resolve the problems ?

I just think if you go in too heavy handed it may make them come out fighting, some times a little tact goes a long way!

Peter @ Boatsandoutboards4sale ~ www.BoatsandOutboards4Sale.co.uk ~ 07930 421007
+1
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Old 24 January 2013, 15:21   #39
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Really bad luck and unfortunate situation.

Can't say I am a speciallist on the subject but here what I would do:

- trying, the nice way, to get even something from the broker. Maybe, just to get rid of You, he would compensate the value of his commission. This is a long shot and not very likely. I would focus on the wrong age(he should have known on the engine..), not the tank, the boat is so old that its impossible to proof when or where the damage took place.
I would not try any legal or further actions against him, that would only cost money and time, with a fraction of a chance off return.

Bellow is something I fully agree with. And the awarded amount might not be significant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ribshop View Post

The year you may have a case with if the serial number is still clear, but then were you asked to confirm the information on the paperwork was correct when you collected?

Even if you were to win the chances are you would get awarded a financial settlement in costs between a 93 build and a 99.
As a next step would try to approach the previous owner, again mainly focusing on the age. If he is decent, he might compensate little on the price.

If not, then I would pretty soon just try to forget the whole thing. The situation is not right or OK, but one has to Pick Your Battles......

Good luck what ever You decide to do.

If the boat has been insured by the previous owner, I guess he have reported an age to the company. This information might give an idea did the previous owner knew the real age of the boat or was he also screwed....?
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Old 24 January 2013, 15:57   #40
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Quote:
Again that correct in every sense but law, if the broker has put that disclaimer I previously posted within the contract I fear that will kill any claims
TDA case law requires any disclaimer to be as "bold and compelling" as the trade description itself. The examplle in court was a disclaimer re car mileages contained quite prominently within the conditions of sale on the sales agreement which was signed by the buyer. It was held that the disclaimer was not as bold and compelling, it had to be seen at the same time and was therefore of no effect. Which is why disclaimers re car mileages are on the speedo so that they can be seen at the same time as the trade description itself , and even itsy bitsy transparent unreadable ones dont cut the mustard. On a civil claim it might help. On a criminal prosecution under TDA perhaps it will - perhaps it wont. Still if your happy that whatever you do keeps one in the clear thats fine. But I dont have to worry about it anymore. My worries tonight are simply that the 3,000litres of diesel we are pumping into this vessel will fit! And that the crew has got the kettle on and the heaters up full cos its b**** freezing here!

To the OP ...contact the trading standards office for the area where you bought the goods. Its free, wont hurt and might help. If you dont try you will never know.
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