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Old 09 September 2004, 05:25   #11
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Ooo look! One of my "green blobs" has vanished. I wonder who gave me a negative feed back? How mature...

Manos,

I thought the topic was you insisting that "the captain" was responsible for the safety of his passengers? The same way that you are responsible for the safety of the passengers in your boat, in your pictures, with you on board, not wearing life jackets if anything, God forbid, should happen to them. So, no, it's not "off topic".
There are also a couple of other issues that I have with your ranting.
Firstly, I have been quite comfortable wearing my (auto type) life jacket whilst boating in the Coral Sea and the Gulf of Oman, so do not presume that I haven't experienced boating in sunny climes. I'm not quite sure how you relate your inability to stand a little discomfort to soldiers dying because of the foolhardy nature of the old Colonial army commanders.
Secondly, why are you still insisting that the chap, who has been charged, is guilty of anything yet? Has he been to trial? Were you there? Do you know the full circumstances of the case, or are you merely going on what is a copy of a news report?
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Old 09 September 2004, 05:47   #12
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Jono I cannot believe that you are trying to defend someone which is obvious (from the BBC report at least) that he was completely in wrong. OK I accept that an investigation will be carried out but all the facts right now show that this guy was in the wrong.

Now on the life jacket issue, we do not wear a life jacket on a boat when we are in Greece and in places that I know well (such as the Aegean Sea and the Agean Islands) except my daughter and we always make sure that she is well hydrated. In fact I never had a life jacket on since I was 12 and I'm still around

I ALWAYS WEAR A LIFE JACKET in the UK and when we sail of the reaf in the carribs or in any place that I do not know the area or the weather patterns.

Different place in Greece and different seas than the UK or the Atlantic in the Caribs. When there are no waves, seas as flat as a lake, hardly any wind, temps 35-38C and we are together with another 2-3 boats no one wears a life jacket. As a matter of fact no one wears a life jacket in Greece on any boat. Not even the Coast Guard. And this is manly that on one is mad enough to go out in gale force winds as there is nothing to prove to any one.
This how things are here. In the UK are different and IMHO people should think that way.

As I said though to non-Greeks I always recommend to wear a life jacket if they wish since they do no know the area. What they do after that is their choice. But we never put 13c people on a boat that is licenced to carry 8 (although the 640SR Facons have a CE certificate for 12 I have asked the Coast Guard to write on the licence max people onboard 8 and I always insist that people do not put more than 6 people on board at any one time)
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Old 09 September 2004, 06:10   #13
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Manos,
You are still missing the points I am trying to make, so perhaps I am not making myself clear enough, so I will try to be "less subtle".

In this country, and it may not be the case in Greece, we have a rather pleasant notion under law. "Innocent until proven guilty". It's an old tradition, but it works most of the time. I am not "defending" anyone here, especially as I have no direct knowledge of the case. What I am defending, or pointing out, is his right to a trial by persons who are as well informed as they can be. What I abhor is people, typified by you in this case, of "trial by media". You don't know anything about this case, other than what you've read in the papers, or on your PC, yet there you are, howling for his blood. That kind of behaviour is, quite frankly, unacceptable in a so-called civilised society.
The second point I am trying to get across, is your shear hypocrisy (a Greek word, if I'm not mistaken, so perhaps there's a clue therein), in stating that the "captain" is responsible no matter what. At the same time you allow people onto your boat without wearing life-jackets, with you in charge. You try to justify this by saying, "that's the way it is in hot countries". Would you be so vehement if one of your crew fell in, knocking there head on the way over the side and drowned. Perhaps you wouldn't notice, whilst your sipping your bottle of wine or perhaps even snorkelling. You cannot say that this is impossible, because it can happen to anyone, even the most vigilant of us. However, by your argument you would be a murderer.
I am not offering the opinion that life jackets should be compulsory, just how you would be viewed by someone with your views, when you were,to use your words, "the Captain" and totally responsible for their safety

Is that clear enough?
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Old 09 September 2004, 06:14   #14
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Can I ask you a question Manos - would YOU get in a small boat if it was seriously overcrowded and water was lapping at the gunwhales???

I certainly wouldn't and I don't think anyone else would either - and I certainly wouldn't let my kids - although maybe my ex girlfriend yes!
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Old 09 September 2004, 06:21   #15
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One of the joys of being an adults means you can make your own decisions.

When I help run events for schools we always have to consider that the children are not in a position to make a proper decision.

The adults did have the ability to make a decision before they got on the boat. I`m not sure I want to be involved in a discussion of what the guy in charge of the boat did was wrong or right but perhaps we should be asking some of the adults why they did not question what they were doing?

I know your gonna say "well perhaps they did'nt have training"! Far enough, but its not like we are talking about an atlantic crossing which would need training. If some body gave me a gun I'd question myself if I tried to use it. (I`ve no idea how to use a gun - but I`ve seen Terminator)

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Old 09 September 2004, 07:21   #16
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Jono IMHO you better stick to the light bulbs.

I have not missed your point at all as you try to make a pointless point and I will stop the discussion here.

However, I will tell you only this............ when one endangers the life of children IS CRIMINANAL. This is criminal in my books and is criminal in this country and in many other countries. The fact remains that 5-6 were permited onboard this boat and 13 were found on board. That is WRONG and the person in charge of the boat is responssible for this!

Re life jackets is a pointless discussion and OFF TOPIC.
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Old 09 September 2004, 08:34   #17
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Manos,

Did you ever consider becoming a politician? You have all the admirable traits of that most noble profession.
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Old 09 September 2004, 08:51   #18
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Update ......

UPDATE........

Briton in boating accident charge


A British man who was in charge of a boat which capsized in Spain, killing three people, has been charged with causing death by misadventure.
David George Sheridan, 45, faces the charges following the accident on a dam in Mequinenza, near Zaragoza, which happened on Saturday.

The three dead, who were Bulgarian, included a married couple.

A Foreign Office spokesman confirmed the charge and went on to add that Mr Sheridan had been released on bail.

Court appearance

He said: "David George Sheridan was charged with causing death by misadventure.

"He appeared in court yesterday and was released on bail. The date for the next hearing has not yet been set.

"It seems he was in charge of a dinghy that capsized. From what we have been told, it was overloaded when the accident happened."

It was reported that at least six adults and seven children were on board the boat, which was designed to carry five.

The dead included a married couple, aged 34 and 36, and another Bulgarian who was living in Spain.

Mr Sheridan was born in Manchester but is believed to live in Cheshire.

Kim
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Old 09 September 2004, 09:43   #19
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The good thing out of all this sadness is that the children are OK.
By the way Kim do you know what 'death by misadventure' means?
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Old 09 September 2004, 11:00   #20
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the buck stops with the skipper...end of story!
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