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Old 08 August 2005, 07:13   #1
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Bottom End Blues!

Hello All

Well, the bargain buy Suzuki 200EFI I fitted to my Ocean 6.25 has now been thoroughly tested, and It appears to be all I hoped it would be. Its Quiet, appears to use less fuel, doesnít mind running at low revs for a while, and goes like stink. I bottled out at 49 Knots it the slightly choppy Solent yesterday without even trying to trim the engine properly.
Cruising at 25 Ė 30 Knots the engine sounded very happy at under 4000RPM.
Thanks to Mark Halliday and family for letting me tag along on their day out.

But, itís developed a nasty looking crack about 3 inches long in what I thought at first was the gearbox.
However, itís only in the Exhaust chamber behind the prop, and the oil in the box has drained out as fresh as when I put it in a few weeks ago. I do need to sort it out though to stop it spreading and to restore full strength.

It looks like itís been welded before, judging by the small blow holes around the crack, and the back of the weld can be seen in the chamber where it was inaccessible to clean up. Annoyingly when it was welded whoever did it didnít strip out the retaining ring for the bearing Ďspiderí and its now welded to the casing.

Iím obviously going to look for a good condition bottom end to sort it out properly, but will get the Dremmel out tonight to clean out the crack ready for welding. Iíll have to go with the legacy Iíve been left and leave it assembled.

I understand there is a company in Southampton that repairs outboard casings, like welding on a new skeg, does anybody have their details?
They will have more experience of the alloy used, so Iíd rather try them than my usual friendly welder in Portsmouth.

Also of course, does anybody know of a good condition bottom end for a 99 Suzuki DT200HP EFI hanging around anywhere? Rocking Horse poo springs to mind!


Nasher.
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Old 08 August 2005, 07:20   #2
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Before you try welding it have a look at a metal filled epoxy - they can be VERY effective - have a little bit more flexibility than a weld so don't crack so easily.

You MUST make sure that there is no oil or grease present - use a solvent to clean very carefully.

I have seen the stuff used on all sorts of gearbox casings and even cylinder heads to fill pitts caused by head skimming.
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Old 08 August 2005, 07:21   #3
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By the way what sort of fuel figures are you getting - I am soon to have a 225efi which everyone has told me will bleed me dry..........
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Old 08 August 2005, 07:42   #4
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Hi. Thanks for the epoxy tip, i'll give it a try. I'll wait to grind out the crack until I'm ready to use the epoxy, that way it will be clean.

Having used it only once, I can't say for sure about the fuel, its just that the gauge appeared to have moved less for a few hours use.

Remember I'm comparing it to an old Johnson 150VRO that I used to run around at full throttle ALL the time, where as the new engine is doing less than 4000RPM at a crusing speed of 25 - 30knots and about half throttle.

Nasher.
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Old 08 August 2005, 08:11   #5
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Codprawn is right about the epoxy-I've even used JB weld to repair a cracked water jacket on a 4.5 litre leyland petrol engine and a year later it was still good.

If you do decide to get it welded then leave the company doing it to do all the weld prep-unless you know what you're doing with that specific alloy then they may have to redo it anyway-or at worst you may clean out too much without realising and cause a problem.(One of my many trades is a Brit Standard certified welder) Jap alloy is a bitch to weld as it's usually pretty poor quality and cracks easily while cooling after welding

A couple of things I will suggest is
1)drain the lower unit oil and leave the drain plug out-otherwise you run the risk of the heat blowing the seals out as the contents of the lower unit expand. In my experience with welding casings on Jap bike engine casings it needs to be left to cool fairly slowly or cracking at the weld site appears.
2)Take the prop off and clean any oily residue out of the exhaust chamber with gunk, clean that off and flush with copious amounts of spray brake cleaner or pure alcohol afterwards. Gunk leaves an oily residue but will get the majority of crap out to start with.
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Old 08 August 2005, 08:51   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nasher
Codprawn

Hi. Thanks for the epoxy tip, i'll give it a try. I'll wait to grind out the crack until I'm ready to use the epoxy, that way it will be clean.
.

Nasher.
Don't just grind it - use solvents as well - loads of it.

Talking of solvent hypervalue and other £ shops sell aerosols of brake cleaner for a quid or less - basically it is trichloroethelyne judging by the smell - great stuff and a lot cheaper than some of the other branded products.
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Old 08 August 2005, 11:05   #7
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Thanks guys, Iíll try using the epoxy first, and if it cracks again Iíll get it welded. Iíll have to grind out some of the crack to get any epoxy in to begin with as itís only about 0.25mm at its widest. Iíll also drill a 1.5 or 2mm hole in the end of the crack to try and stop it propagating, then fill that with epoxy too.

I like to think I can wield a MIG pretty well, so I borrowed a TIG and tried welding a Jap bike engine case myself when I converted my old Z1 to hydraulic clutch (see www.simonnash.co.uk) I gave up and gave it to somebody who really knows what they are doing.

Can you recommend a brand of epoxy to use?

If anybody wants to poke, prod, or generally draw breath at it, Iíll drop it in the back of my car for the Solent meet tonight.

Nasher.
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Old 08 August 2005, 11:15   #8
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JB Weld is very good for this sort of job: available at B&Q or Halfords
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Old 08 August 2005, 15:58   #9
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I would not trust this again until its welded.

This is not an uncommon problem and as it stands sounds like it will weld up. However if the crack travels you may loose part of the gearbox as it will litterally fall out, that case is holding the whole lot in. You can afford to loose bits into the sea, once they are gone they are lost. Also you will end up stranded. Just strip the gearbox out and have it welded. Don't let them grind the weld off the outside, just leave it, its stronger. Dont do it yourself the stuff is a bitch. You need a specialist.

This happened to one of my outboards, once done it totally fine.
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Old 08 August 2005, 16:26   #10
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You would be suprised how well epoxy can work in the right circumstances - I have used araldite 24hr with metal fillings in it - whatever metal for the job in hand - cast iron for cast iron etc etc. I have personally done a few engine blocks that have lasted years.

When welding aluminium TIG is the only way to go - ideally the part needs to be pre heated as well.

Seriously epoxy is well worth a try - JB weld is very good but almost any slow setting epoxy with metal filler will do - remember Aston Martins and the new Airbus are all glued together!!!!
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