Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 
Old 07 November 2006, 13:43   #31
Member
 
Country: Other
Town: Stanley, Falkland Is
Boat name: Seawolf
Make: Osprey Vipermax 5.8
Length: 5m +
Engine: Etec 150
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,688
Quick question on the Sikaflex application for the leading edge.... probably going to do that tonight.

The tube in front of the leading edge has some of the glue on it from the first layer I applied, because I deliberately made the glue bigger than the patch in case I didn't get the patch on exactly straight!

Would it be better to sand this off and apply the Sikaflex to the bare hypalon, or apply it to the glue, which presumably will be well stuck on to the tube?
__________________

__________________
A Boat is a hole in the water, surrounded by fibreglass, into which you throw money...

Sent from my Computer, using a keyboard and mouse
BogMonster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07 November 2006, 14:27   #32
Member
 
Country: Other
Town: Oakley
Boat name: Zerstörer
Make: Ribcraft
Length: 5m +
Engine: Suzuki DF 140
MMSI: 235050131
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,931
Stephen,

I would have thought cleaning off the old glue. It must be contaminated now with general grott and I don't suppose it will give a good surface to glue to as its now cured.
__________________

__________________
http://www.xfire.com/download/
Biggles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07 November 2006, 14:30   #33
Member
 
Country: Other
Town: Stanley, Falkland Is
Boat name: Seawolf
Make: Osprey Vipermax 5.8
Length: 5m +
Engine: Etec 150
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,688
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggles View Post
Stephen,

I would have thought cleaning off the old glue. It must be contaminated now with general grott and I don't suppose it will give a good surface to glue to as its now cured.
It only went on, on Sunday, so should be clean, but I think I'll give it a scrub up with some sandpaper anyway to provide a key.

Thanks

Fingers crossed for the weekend..... and once I can pump it up hard I can measure both tubes (sods law indicates they will be different sizes...) and send the measurements off to Paul to get some new bits made up
__________________
A Boat is a hole in the water, surrounded by fibreglass, into which you throw money...

Sent from my Computer, using a keyboard and mouse
BogMonster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 November 2006, 17:11   #34
Member
 
Country: Other
Town: Stanley, Falkland Is
Boat name: Seawolf
Make: Osprey Vipermax 5.8
Length: 5m +
Engine: Etec 150
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,688
Well that was a short-lived idea. About six or seven hours running since I did it, spread over 2 days, and the patch is starting to fail along the leading edge, the sikaflex "cover" over the leading edge has split (still stuck to the toob, just split where the edge of the patch is) and it has lifted the seam along about an inch.

Burn the beast, burn the orange Satan, burn burn burn burn burn
__________________
A Boat is a hole in the water, surrounded by fibreglass, into which you throw money...

Sent from my Computer, using a keyboard and mouse
BogMonster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03 December 2006, 17:03   #35
Member
 
Country: Other
Town: Stanley, Falkland Is
Boat name: Seawolf
Make: Osprey Vipermax 5.8
Length: 5m +
Engine: Etec 150
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,688
Fixed it ..... again

out last weekend - ok

out this weekend

see below

"A Mac

A Mac

My kingdom for a Mac...."

Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooh <deep breaths> I hate this boat

nothing wrong with the gluing - all the orange has come off the tube again, even with having the leading edge covered with sikaflex so as not to catch up in the water flow.... makes me wonder if its worth fixing it at all or if the new tube ends will just fall out when I stick them in
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	kinrib.jpg
Views:	140
Size:	28.3 KB
ID:	23562  
__________________
A Boat is a hole in the water, surrounded by fibreglass, into which you throw money...

Sent from my Computer, using a keyboard and mouse
BogMonster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05 December 2006, 13:27   #36
Member
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Ardfern
Boat name: Moon Raker
Make: Humber Destroyer
Length: 5m +
Engine: Honda BF 90 D
MMSI: 235035994
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 694
Quote:
Originally Posted by BogMonster View Post
Fixed it ..... again


nothing wrong with the gluing - all the orange has come off the tube again, even with having the leading edge covered with sikaflex so as not to catch up in the water flow.... makes me wonder if its worth fixing it at all or if the new tube ends will just fall out when I stick them in
Stephen,

Have you been following this thread : http://rib.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16962 ? Tubes on a Ribtec being re-covered. Near the end of the thread the method of fixing is described. It seems that the top layer of fabric was sanded off, the exposed material primed with thinned glue, then new material (patch) glued using two layers of glue.

Your problem obviously isn't the gluing, it's the outer layer of material. Get rid of that and your troubles could be over. Just a thought. As if you don't have enough to do.

I have more than passing interest in your problems. My Humber is year 2000, blue tubes. No signs of your problem yet, but they don't hold the air like they used to. Tony.
__________________
alystra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05 December 2006, 14:10   #37
Member
 
Country: Other
Town: Stanley, Falkland Is
Boat name: Seawolf
Make: Osprey Vipermax 5.8
Length: 5m +
Engine: Etec 150
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,688
Quote:
Originally Posted by alystra View Post
Stephen,

Have you been following this thread : http://rib.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16962 ? Tubes on a Ribtec being re-covered. Near the end of the thread the method of fixing is described. It seems that the top layer of fabric was sanded off, the exposed material primed with thinned glue, then new material (patch) glued using two layers of glue.

Your problem obviously isn't the gluing, it's the outer layer of material. Get rid of that and your troubles could be over. Just a thought. As if you don't have enough to do.

I have more than passing interest in your problems. My Humber is year 2000, blue tubes. No signs of your problem yet, but they don't hold the air like they used to. Tony.
I hadn't - will read it later as it looks quite lengthy! Thanks, sounds interesting

The latest curiosity - I was investigating at lunchtime and the tube seems to be half full of water after Sunday despite the fact it hasn't gone down, its just dripping very slowly out from under the patch, really weird, can't see how so much got in there when the tube had pressure in it and the hole is evidently tiny. I thought she felt lopsided when we were coming home, as if there was water in the toob, but I stopped and the toob stayed hard so thought it must have been my imagination.

I guess I will have to peel the patches right off and drain it out because it isn't going to dry out enough to glue it otherwise... and it'll be a couple of weeks before the new bits get here, its a long weekend this weekend and I don't want to be ribless. Bang goes 2 more evenings this week what I wouldn't give to swap it for a lovely Mac right now!!! This is a bit like being married to a stunning woman who takes a hearty dump in your cornflakes every morning....

Have you got wear patches? If you have, you'll probably be fine but you need to keep an eye on the seam where the inside layer stops because that's where mine has gone. The other tube is going the same way but it hasn't broken through yet. But of course it isn't a design fault ho hum
__________________
A Boat is a hole in the water, surrounded by fibreglass, into which you throw money...

Sent from my Computer, using a keyboard and mouse
BogMonster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06 December 2006, 14:06   #38
Member
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Ardfern
Boat name: Moon Raker
Make: Humber Destroyer
Length: 5m +
Engine: Honda BF 90 D
MMSI: 235035994
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 694
Quote:
Originally Posted by BogMonster View Post
I hadn't - will read it later as it looks quite lengthy! Thanks, sounds interesting

The latest curiosity - I was investigating at lunchtime and the tube seems to be half full of water after Sunday despite the fact it hasn't gone down, its just dripping very slowly out from under the patch, really weird, can't see how so much got in there when the tube had pressure in it and the hole is evidently tiny. I thought she felt lopsided when we were coming home, as if there was water in the toob, but I stopped and the toob stayed hard so thought it must have been my imagination.

I guess I will have to peel the patches right off and drain it out because it isn't going to dry out enough to glue it otherwise... and it'll be a couple of weeks before the new bits get here, its a long weekend this weekend and I don't want to be ribless. Bang goes 2 more evenings this week what I wouldn't give to swap it for a lovely Mac right now!!! This is a bit like being married to a stunning woman who takes a hearty dump in your cornflakes every morning....

Have you got wear patches? If you have, you'll probably be fine but you need to keep an eye on the seam where the inside layer stops because that's where mine has gone. The other tube is going the same way but it hasn't broken through yet. But of course it isn't a design fault ho hum
No, no wear patches on mine, just had a quick look this morning and nothing obvious. Might not be a bad idea to fit some though. I'll be doing quite a lot of work on the boat in the spring (trying to fit a tent on it so I can overnight in 'comfort'). Might do it then.

I can't help thinking there's something strange going on with the fabric. Why is it delaminating? Could the water inside the tubes soak through the woven fabric and lift the outer skin? I've had six inflatables (mostly Avon Redcrests), still got two, one 35 years old and the other 15 yrs. Both have been outside and inflated for most of their lives. The hypalon is still perfect on both, though lots of fittings have dropped off over the years.
__________________
alystra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06 December 2006, 14:22   #39
Member
 
Country: Other
Town: Stanley, Falkland Is
Boat name: Seawolf
Make: Osprey Vipermax 5.8
Length: 5m +
Engine: Etec 150
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,688
Quote:
Originally Posted by alystra View Post
No, no wear patches on mine, just had a quick look this morning and nothing obvious. Might not be a bad idea to fit some though. I'll be doing quite a lot of work on the boat in the spring (trying to fit a tent on it so I can overnight in 'comfort'). Might do it then.

I can't help thinking there's something strange going on with the fabric. Why is it delaminating? Could the water inside the tubes soak through the woven fabric and lift the outer skin? I've had six inflatables (mostly Avon Redcrests), still got two, one 35 years old and the other 15 yrs. Both have been outside and inflated for most of their lives. The hypalon is still perfect on both, though lots of fittings have dropped off over the years.
I really don't know what is going on. The inner neoprene layer is supposed to be airtight so I suppose its watertight as well. I put a container under the tube last night and this morning it had about a litre of water in it but the tube still has a lot more in it and is still rock hard in fact I let some air out in case the sun came out today.

The new tube ends were collected from Paul Tilley yesterday so I hope to get them either next Monday or more likely the one after. Fingers crossed that will solve the problem but the delamination does worry me a bit....

What you need to do to identify the weakness is look for a little "ridge" on the surface of the fabric where the hidden inner layer ends, because it is along this line that it will fail. You can see it quite clearly happening on the bottom of the starboard tube as well, but its almost impossible to get a clear photo of. If I were you I'd fit wear patches asap to give it some protection, more importantly the extra layer will stop a lot of the flexing which I am sure is what killed mine, the seam constantly flexing every time water hits it and then pop due to fatigue.

I think Avon quality is a cut above most of the others
__________________
A Boat is a hole in the water, surrounded by fibreglass, into which you throw money...

Sent from my Computer, using a keyboard and mouse
BogMonster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06 December 2006, 16:12   #40
Member
 
Country: USA
Town: Oakland CA
Length: 3m +
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,653
Quote:
Originally Posted by alystra View Post
I can't help thinking there's something strange going on with the fabric. Why is it delaminating? Could the water inside the tubes soak through the woven fabric and lift the outer skin?
Shouldn't be the case. Hypalon material is a outer layer of hypalon, a woven fabric for strength, and an inner layer of neoprene for air keeping. If water from inside was getting to the weave, the tubes should not hold air.

I suspect that the water is entering through the leaks. You probably get a lot more pressure than you'd think while running (water getting between the patch and the tube, and being forced into the hole.)

Stephen; you might think about taping the inside of the joint when fitting the new tube ends; would make any subsequent delamination problems a little less dire. Maybe.

jky
__________________

__________________
jyasaki is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 22:40.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.