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Old 24 July 2014, 10:52   #11
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.....the posters on this site do my nut in ....
You're doing a fine job by yerself, you don't need our help
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Old 24 July 2014, 11:00   #12
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OK - so then lets ( a collective nation) not bother trying to get people to wear them at all - thats a much better to makeboating safe .
by your own admission this is about protecting the insurer not protecting people. I don't think anyone said not bother. I don't recall anyone saying KC's were a bad idea, or even that its a bad idea to encourage their use.

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Cars are legally requireds to be insured - boats aren't thats a big differance - if your clever enough to insure then you're clever enough to wear a KC.
the highest profile kill cord accident was with clever people with a high value boat. I'd suggest it was insured. They simply forgot to put the cord on. You seem pleased to here that a simple accident that someone forgets to do something will not be insured but does nothing to address those who are too stupid to insure in the first place.

The reason 3rd party insurance is not legally required at sea is, thankfully, third party losses from uninsured parties is a rare occurrence. From kill cord preventable accidents even more so. Making the insurance policy even less likely to pay out is not a good way to encourage everyone to be responsible and get insured.

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Sometimes the attitudes of the posters on this site do my nut in ....
Do you ever stop to think when someone disagrees with you that their MIGHT be a deeper argument than the superficial conclusion you've jumped to?

If insurers wanted to improve safety they could. I'm sceptical about kill cord stickers - but they could include them in renewal notices - or even a leaflet with some gory pictures. They could even offer significant (rather than token) discounts for people with quals, or insist that there is someone trained on board at all times etc. In reality theft is probably more likely to be a payout for insurers hence why they've already developed their requirements/excuses in that area.
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Old 24 July 2014, 11:23   #13
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Do you ever stop to think when someone disagrees with you that their MIGHT be a deeper argument than the superficial conclusion you've jumped to?
I'd gentle up a bit IIWY P...

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Old 24 July 2014, 11:30   #14
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Superb responses from the admins again

I'm going boating & flying in France this week - enjoy being admins sat behind a computer .....
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Old 24 July 2014, 11:38   #15
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Superb responses from the admins again

I'm going boating & flying in France this week - enjoy being admins sat behind a computer .....
nah nah na nah nah, We used to say things like that in the playground too

PS, what IS the minimum age for a PPL?
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Old 24 July 2014, 11:56   #16
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Superb responses from the admins again

I'm going boating & flying in France this week - enjoy being admins sat behind a computer .....
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Old 24 July 2014, 12:30   #17
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Old 24 July 2014, 12:59   #18
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OK - so then lets ( a collective nation) not bother trying to get people to wear them at all - thats a much better to makeboating safe .



Cars are legally requireds to be insured - boats aren't thats a big differance - if your clever enough to insure then you're clever enough to wear a KC.



If you dont insure - it wont matter .



Sometimes the attitudes of the posters on this site do my nut in ....

I would hazard a guess that the majority of people who insure their boats are really only interested in theft or damage, with third perry liability only of minor interest as no one believes they are likely to cause an accident.

In this scenario it's perfectly reasonable to expect to find people self-interested enough to have insurance, but without the awareness or imagination to use a kill cord.

Would an insurer get away with not paying a third party claim because the insured wasn't using a kill cord anyway? Surely the main point of third party insurance is to cover the insured's incompetence or negligence?

I could see them declining to pay out for the insured's losses though.
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Old 24 July 2014, 17:08   #19
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Thought I'd take a gander at T&G's wording. It would certainly be possible to make the policy not cover the boat (or owner) for damage caused when KC not worn. I'm inclined to agree that third party causes an issue...

However, I discovered this page: Essential Safety Devices for RIBS | Towergate Insurance - it seems T&G don't think a KC is in the top 5 bits of safety kit! Its mentioned in "other". So lights and a compass are more important...!

The sample policy wording seems to be from 2011.

My craft is fitted with a 'kill cord', should I use it all the time?

Their FAQ does cover it...
Quote:
My craft is fitted with a 'kill cord', should I use it all the time?
Yes. Your cover will be invalid if you fail to attach your kill cord. Occupants thrown from the craft can avoid serious injury if the engine can be cut.
Had a look at Zurich's example small craft policy documents on their website (N&G) - but can't see any sign of kill cords either.

Their risk management guide also seems to miss mentioning it.. http://www.zurich.co.uk/internet/hom...0500249008.pdf

That said... N&G have this general exclusion:
"wilful misconduct or acts of recklessness by you or other persons
in control of the Craft including, not limited to, conduct when under the
influence of alcohol or drugs"

I'd suggest failure to use a KC may be classed as reckless...

But I wouldn't want their policy anyway...

Exclusions for craft capable of > 20mph:
"theft of Craft whilst stored unless the
theft involves forcible and violent
entry or removal."

So someone comes and cuts my wheel lock off and drives my trailer and boat away but I'm not there to be exposed to voilence... so I'm not covered?
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Old 24 July 2014, 17:31   #20
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The money grabbing bastards are now saying that you must wear a KC good news
But they don't say what condition the switch has to be in ! They don't say to test it before leaving the dockside ?
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