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Old 09 August 2007, 04:39   #1
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Boat Handling Skills - Now I have taken the plunge...Course choice info needed

Hi all. After a long and fruitless search to find a second hand boat that 'ticked' all the boxes, I have decided that the only way to get what I want is to order new... so I am in the process of ordering a new 650 Ocean from Malcolm Winsor.. . .

Obviously this means a wait before I am on the water (looking towards end Sept for delivery at least), so In the meantime I would like to further my boat-handling experience/training on ribs and am looking for a little advice on this.

Currently I have PB2 (which I did with Jimbo's school last year - excellent) and have had had a good many hours on the water in ribs since then. I also have Day-Skipper Sail and also Theory up to Yachtmaster Offshore and many years of experience in sailing craft.

My Quandry is.. if I take PB Intermediate is there going to be a lot of focus on navigation and theory rather than boat-handling. I would like to take advanced but again wonder what the mix is between navigation and actual boat-handling instruction. Also I seem to recall that the PB advanced courses tend not to run this time of year due to it getting dark too late.

I guess what I am looking for is more instruction on handling a rib in more challenging condtitons - heavier seas, effective use of power trim/trim tabs etc.

Can anyone advise whther it would make sense to take intermediate or should I go straight to advanced, does anyone have vacancies on any courses in the near future which may suit?
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Old 09 August 2007, 06:11   #2
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The Intermedaite course is totally nav/pilotage. However most instructors feature a little boat handling as a refresher.

The adv course is boat handling, rough weather and more nav/pilotage (in particular at night). Remember of course if the sea state is flat on your given date then the rough weather stuff becomes very theoretical and the best you will get is a video

I think what you are really after is bespoke tuition later in the year (own boat) when it is more lileky to be rougher.

Avalaibility wise give us a call for inter or adv, we ruin them all the time.

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Old 09 August 2007, 06:56   #3
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we ruin them all the time.

dats wot i lyke. a bitt ov onnesty

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Old 09 August 2007, 09:12   #4
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we alos ruin spelling courses if intresd

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Old 09 August 2007, 09:35   #5
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I guess what I am looking for is more instruction on handling a rib in more challenging condtitons - heavier seas, effective use of power trim/trim tabs etc.
I tend to agree with Doug - go for some tailored made tuition on your own boat when you get it. To be honest, while rough water techniques can be taught, there is nothing like going out and learning from experience. You say you have your PB2 so go and practice the techniques you should have been taught on that course around the marina/pontoons in your own boat when it comes.

If as you say you have YM shore based then build up more experience on the rib and then consider going for the Advanced skipping the Intermediate - it's really a cruising course and aimed at those who perhaps want to go further afield in daylight and still have limited navigational skills. Your YM shore based will stand you in good stead for the advanced course - as a matter of interest we wont encourage students do the advanced course unless they have done the DS shore based or can convince us their navigational theory is up to speed; same goes with our DS practical courses.
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Old 09 August 2007, 10:51   #6
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BigFella,

I would say it sounds like you need to get some time out on the solent when the weather is shite!!

Why not contact Rogue Wave and ask to go out when the weather is not too clever. As for courses I was advised that the intermediate is not really worth the cost and that going straight to advanced is the way forward.

As always there will be loads of different opinions on this I am sure however as you have rightly pointed out experience is what you are after here.

Since I did my PB2 with RW I have been out on the Solent in some pretty nasty conditions and it certainly sharpens your skills up.

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Old 09 August 2007, 11:41   #7
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Exactly that... I don't want to pay money for someone to teach me navigation/ meteorology etc having done both DS and YM and been using those navigation techniques for a good many years...

Again, I am not overly interested in being taught close-quarters maneouvering as it is covered in PB2 and as has been pointed out, these are easy enough to practice at any time.

What I am more specifically interested is learning the best ways to handle a RIB in more difficult/challenging conditions which is probably not best learnt by just getting out there and getting it wrong. . . .

It seems that perhaps some one on one own boat tuition will be the way to go once the boat is finished ... now it is going to feel like a long time between now and delivery which is estimated towards the end of September.......
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Old 09 August 2007, 13:24   #8
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One of my clients has a 8.5 m Ocean with twin diesels a fantastic boat in the rough stuff .
Way ahead for you is, as others have suggested is OBT Advanced just got to pick the right couple of day's in Sept
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Old 09 August 2007, 15:13   #9
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I'd do what the rest say. When you get the boat post on here dates when you want to go out and get some company for some experience in the winter months.

I enjoy the winter because you don't have to go so far to feel you've had a good day on the boat. And as long as your sensible although the Solent can be a bit of a back breaker at times its pretty well contained and doesn't get the extremes you can get just outside it.

PM me when you fancy going out in some rough cold stuff. I'll join you. Its what RIBs are for. Its also suprising how nice an extra cold beer can be in the middle of winter.

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Old 10 August 2007, 06:42   #10
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hey big fella - nice to meet you this week - you can always shout if you want to do anything in your own, or even better being as both of us know malc quite well, lets just borrow one of his spare ones for the day when it looks a bit lumpy...
1. concentrate on short sets - configuration
2. disturbed seas 3m swell + - entry / exit - escape route
3. following seas - hazards, tips etc
4. solent ship wake hazards - VLCC's - Wave piercing cats... etc

all of the above you can do in the solent, needles for short sets, haslar sea wall for disturbed, following Nab tower, cowes for 4.
try and do one excercise per outing and get a good brief, demonstration, then you do it and get the excercise licked - dont try and do all the above in one session - get it right, be happy - and you will be as professional as any commercial skipper out there... enjoy..
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Old 13 August 2007, 06:13   #11
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Hey Nik- it was indeed good to meet up. Your assistance has been invaluable and hopefully I will now end up with a boat which will meet my requirements sensibly.

Malc's on holiday for a couple of weeks now but what you suggest may be a goer when he gets back.. and your list definitely seems to cover the areas I was thinking of - and more.
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Old 13 August 2007, 14:08   #12
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650 Ocean

Hi Big Fella,

Congratulations on your new purchase, you wont be disapointed a great boat. What engine have you gone for.

As for training I would sugest waiting until you are on the water and take it one step at a time building up your experience and confidence in your own boat. There are some very good instructors on here and are local that can offer 1 2 1 tuition. Join in on some of the cruises in company. Then spread your wings the world is your oyster.

Regards

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Old 13 August 2007, 15:17   #13
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Originally Posted by Aging Youth
Congratulations on your new purchase, you wont be disapointed a great boat. What engine have you gone for.
Thanks. To be honest I have long admired Malc's boats and am very glad that I have decided to order a new one, however,here's the deal:

I have spec'd the boat and the matls/tubes etc are now on order and build is scheduled in the factory. However I haven't yet spec'd an engine as I have agreed a plan with Malcolm to try to source a second hand outboard in order to keep my budget down to a 'sensible' level. I am hoping to find a suitable unit for around £5/6k second hand( In the ideal world I would probably be rushing out with the chequebook for a nice shiny 200 etec or similar )

I guess I am aiming around the 150-200 HP area, and after discussions probably looking at a 2stroke DI rather than a four in order to cope with additional weight.

Need to start looking soon as I want to try to get the engine to Malc in advance of the build so he can fit and rig it. - I feel a wanted post coming on.....

Keith
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Old 14 August 2007, 04:24   #14
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hey big fella - nice to meet you this week - you can always shout if you want to do anything in your own, or even better being as both of us know malc quite well, lets just borrow one of his spare ones for the day when it looks a bit lumpy...
1. concentrate on short sets - configuration
2. disturbed seas 3m swell + - entry / exit - escape route
3. following seas - hazards, tips etc
4. solent ship wake hazards - VLCC's - Wave piercing cats... etc

all of the above you can do in the solent, needles for short sets, haslar sea wall for disturbed, following Nab tower, cowes for 4.
try and do one excercise per outing and get a good brief, demonstration, then you do it and get the excercise licked - dont try and do all the above in one session - get it right, be happy - and you will be as professional as any commercial skipper out there... enjoy..
Theres sense here!

Don't forget that the VLCC, Box Boats (container ships) and Car Carriers and Liners/Large Feries have a moving exclusion Zone in the Solent. Ikm ahead and 200m either side

Theres a lot of old Oceans around still looking good and in regular use. I take that as a good sign

I am back at the beginning of September for a fortnight, and I want to Sea trial our new Engine in our Avon 8.4.. which should be fitted by then. Intention is to go round the Island, Down to Portaland and off to France not all on the same day but you are welcome to join us if you want.

Re engine you should be able to get a new Opti 200 for not much more than 7 K Don't underestimate the usefulness of a warranty unless it's from Yamaha
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Old 14 August 2007, 09:42   #15
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Just as a general update, I have done a deal on an engine now, It is a 2005 Evinrude 175 DI which has around 80 hours and is being replaced with an etec by the current owners.. which means that I get all the nice new shiny bits from the new etec as he is keeping all the original guages etc in the boat
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Old 14 August 2007, 10:21   #16
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make sure you keep the engine cover latch well lubed and use it egularly. if it seizes then the plastic is not strong and will snap.
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Old 14 August 2007, 10:23   #17
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Good tip - thanks
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