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Old 11 November 2005, 09:01   #41
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Guys, sorry if this is all a bit off post but i suspect I'm not the only one out there confused by the towing legislation. Jono, I think you're absolutely right, there's many people towing illegally knowingly and dangerously and there's a whole heap more towing illegally unknowingly because of the confusing regs. According to the chart posted here, if a trailer is not used to carry goods or for hire or reward (the NO answer at the top), you go straight to "No Tacho Required"

Our exhib trailer will not be used for either of those purposes. There's also no way the towing weight scenario comes into it either. According to this chart, no tach is required for our particular use, period. However, the weight issue is different. I am keen to discover what I will need to tow this MF legally (having got the tacho issue out of the way) so we come back to the MTW and MAM issues.

This could also affect all those who regularly tow their boats any distance with cars so it's a worthwhile conversation. One question though...would you heel whilst towing?

Phew....
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Old 11 November 2005, 09:05   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hard1
. According to the chart posted here, if a trailer is not used to carry goods or for hire or reward (the NO answer at the top), you go straight to "No Tacho Required"

Phew....
That chart is out dated..sorry.. (See FAQ4)..you do need a Tacho...IF it's in connection with your business and it exceed the 3,500Kg rule (See FAQ2)..The hire or reward refers to you. Ie if you are using a trailer in connection with any business or use for which you receive financial compensation (wages, Salary Etc)

With a "110" LR, depending on model, the maximum gross weight trailer you can tow, in connection with business is only 450 -550 KG.. without a Tacho.
I'll see if I can find the figures for your Trooper.
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Old 11 November 2005, 09:20   #43
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Originally Posted by Pete7
Hmm, lots of work

Tims new project

.
Note quite Pete. I'm going to stick some sort of outboard-age on the back.....
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Old 11 November 2005, 09:31   #44
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Mmm...couldn't find the MAM of the trooper but its curb weight is about the same as LR 110 at 2000Kg give or take... so allowing for a payload of 750 Kg (I'm guessing..don't shoot!) your max gross weight for a trailer before tacho rules cut in is 750KG.... you'd need a tacho dude...
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Old 11 November 2005, 09:33   #45
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The good news is they ain't that dear.. 300-500 ish.. Then you need a copy of the driving time rules...
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Old 11 November 2005, 10:03   #46
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http://www.ntta.co.uk/law/tachographs/tachographs.htm

Edit: I just phoned the NTTA and they say that this information IS up to date.
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Old 11 November 2005, 10:06   #47
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The NTTA odviously hasn't updated it's information in th last five years then. This is their webpage relating to the matter: http://www.ntta.co.uk/law/tachographs/tachographs.htm

Edit: I just phoned the NTTA and they say that this information IS up to date.

Oh yes? Nice get out clause..

"The DETR and the NTTA stress that their comments are for advice only and that it is for the courts to interpret the law."

So how did they explain the Court ruling in 2003 and posted on the VOSA site?

"FAQ.4) Are trailers which have no capacity to carry goods (ie. mobile plant) exempt from the rules?


No. A High Court Judgement in July 2003 ruled that a vehicle towing a trailer (either goods carrying or non-goods carrying) is subject to the EC drivers' hours and tachograph rules. Exceptions to this rule are where the "vehicle combination" does not exceed a maximum permissible weight of 3.5t (see FAQ.2 for details on how to work out the weight criteria) or where the operation is exempt (see Section 22 of GV262)."
..

Perhaps you might like to ask them to review their advice in light of this and see what they say?

<edit> Scratch that.. I've just phoned the (very pleasant) chap in Leamington and he's going to double check with VOSA, as he wasn't aware of the Court decision and then ammend his chart as appropriate....
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Old 11 November 2005, 10:23   #48
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love it .....so the more we look the more confused we are by the rulings and statements posted by the authorities, and even by what they say, what a shambles as usual.

a question ......the towing capacity of many 4x4s is 3.5t and i have always believed that i can tow upto 3.5 t behind the vehicle, meaning i would have a gross weight of vehicle and trailer of close to 5.5t in total.

so

if i was towing for business i would need a tacho.? as the limit is 3.5t combined vehicle and trailer........seems very odd as most 4x4 plus caravans combinations exceed 3.5t, i know mine does. strange how they pitch the limit lower for business use
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Old 11 November 2005, 10:24   #49
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Further thought for your exhibition trailer... If the VEHICLE was fitted for exhibition you don't need a tacho... but it doesn't say "Trailer" . If challenged could you get away with that as a defence as the Court ruling refers to operation (I.e. Exhibiting) but the text refers to Vehicle? All the Jargon refers to Vehicle AND trailer implying that a trailer is not a vehicle so it would be interesting to see ... anyone want to take it to Court?

I'm gonna see what VOSA come back with....
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Old 11 November 2005, 10:27   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Jardon
love it .....so the more we look the more confused we are by the rulings and statements posted by the authorities, and even by what they say, what a shambles as usual.

a question ......the towing capacity of many 4x4s is 3.5t and i have always believed that i can tow upto 3.5 t behind the vehicle, meaning i would have a gross weight of vehicle and trailer of close to 5.5t in total.

so

if i was towing for business i would need a tacho.? as the limit is 3.5t combined vehicle and trailer........seems very odd as most 4x4 plus caravans combinations exceed 3.5t, i know mine does. strange how they pitch the limit lower for business use
Good innit? How about the fact that I can drive my 11,500 Kg Motorhome (when it's finished) on a car license and it's just subject to an ordinary MOT not plateing???
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