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Old 07 January 2013, 11:52   #41
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Originally Posted by biffer View Post
If I go with the tide I have to go faster than the tide because I will have no steering. As with most power boats. But when you put a thousand hp in gear it tends to move. Now the boat will do as John says 6 mph against the tide. If you go with the tide I have to do at least 12 mph to have any control over her
I cant say for certain, but my guess is that change will allow you to go at greater speeds to maintain steerage because you will not be creating damaging wash.
Conversely, some boats can stay legal within 6 knots against the tide and create a huge wash.
Ultimately the harbourmaster is going to be the best source of information.
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Old 07 January 2013, 11:57   #42
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Luckily here in the hamble I do work for the harbour master so they know I'm doing the best I can
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Old 29 January 2013, 14:58   #43
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FOUND THIS
"The RYA are making headway combating the 'police state powers' harbourmaster bill (see Yachting Monthly News February).

Discussions with the British Ports Association, UK Major Ports Group and Chamber of Shipping are 'progressing positively'. The RYA is concerned the proposed extension of harbour authority powers under the Marine Navigation (No.2) Bill provides no safeguard for harbour users.

But now a new code of conduct is being considered which would provide harbour users with a means of challenging proposed harbour directions through the local Port User Group. If no resolution can be found, organisations such as the RYA or the Chamber of Shipping would be able to refer the disputed directions to an independent third party.

Gus Lewis Head of Government Affairs, said: 'The code would provide a form of check and balance to govern the exercise of the power by individual harbour authorities and offer a practical framework for the review of inappropriate and unjustified directions.

'Our preferred solution would have been for a statutory safeguard to be included on the face of the Bill. However, it is becoming clear that neither the Government nor the Opposition are keen to amend the Bill.

'The Bill does contain many positive measures and has strong cross-party support but any amendments could delay the Bill such that it runs out of Parliamentary time, which neither the Government nor the Opposition wants to happen'.

The Bill had its second reading in the House of Lords on 18 January 2013. The RYA briefed Peers in advance of the reading on its concerns that the Bill proposes to give harbour authorities unchecked power to create criminal offences.

A number of Peers supported the RYA's concerns during the second reading debate and the need for a mechanism such as a code of conduct was recognised.

The RYA has not been alone in expressing its concerns about elements of the Bill. Other organisations within the maritime sector have opposed parts of the Bill and like us are disappointed by the Government's reluctance to consider making amendments to the Bill.

RYA concerns are with Clause 5 of the Marine Navigation (No.2) Bill which would confer on designated harbour authorities the power to give ‘harbour directions' to ships (including recreational craft) within their harbours. Failure to comply with the direction would be a criminal offence.

The Bill creates no checks and balances to govern the exercise of power by individual harbour authorities and no practical recourse or remedy for the review of inappropriate and unjustified directions.
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Old 02 May 2013, 06:52   #44
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From RYA - New harbour powers will be checked by a code of conduct

From RYA - New harbour powers will be checked by a code of conduct

Harbour authorities will be expected to abide by a ‘Code of Conduct’ when making Harbour Directions.

The RYA has successfully reached agreement with the British Ports Association (BPA), UK Major Ports Group (UKMPG) and the UK Chamber of Shipping (UKCoS) on a ‘Code of Conduct on Harbour Directions’. Harbour authorities will be expected to abide by the Code when making Harbour Directions under extended powers provided by the Marine Navigation (No.2) Bill.

Code provides a safeguard for harbour users
“The Code will provide harbour users with a means of challenging proposed harbour directions through a local Port User Group (PUG). If no resolution can be found, organisations such as the RYA or the Chamber of Shipping will be able to refer the disputed directions to an independent third party,” Gus Lewis Head of Legal and Government Affairs.

The Code was developed by the RYA, BPA, UKMPG and UKCoS in response to the Marine Navigation (No.2) Bill, which has now received Royal Assent and is the Marine Navigation Act 2013.

Assurance from Shipping Minister
“We will need to be vigilant to ensure that the powers granted under the Bill are not abused by harbour authorities to impose unreasonable restrictions on recreational boating activity. “In the committee debate in the House of Lords, however, Lord Attlee repeated the Shipping Minister's assurance that the Government would expect any harbour authority applying for designation to have agreed to the Code of Conduct. “He went on to say that he did not anticipate that the Code would be ignored in future years; furthermore, the designation order would be kept under review and a harbour authority could be de-designated if that were warranted.

“In light of the comments of both the Shipping Minister and Lord Attlee, we expect harbour authorities to act in accordance with the Code of Conduct”.

Checks to govern the exercise of power
The RYA was concerned that, whilst the Bill provides extended powers to harbour authorities to regulate activities in their harbours, there was no provision for a check or balance to govern the exercise of this power that would safeguard users against inappropriate or unjustified directions.
Particularly since the failure to comply with a harbour direction will be a criminal offence.

“We would have preferred a statutory safeguard to be included on the face of the Bill, and we were successful in harnessing support for this from a number of MPs and Peers”

“However, any amendments would have delayed the Bill’s passage such that it ran out of Parliamentary time, which neither the Government nor the Opposition were prepared to countenance.”

Julian Hansen, RYA member and Chair of the RYA Cruising and Government Affairs Committee: “I attended some of the meetings the RYA had with BPA, UKMPG and the Department for Transport and was impressed by the respect in which the RYA is held by legislators, who realise that we are an effective organisation that they need to listen to”.
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Old 05 December 2013, 10:13   #45
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Update

The Code of Conduct for Harbour Directions has now been published, together with supplementary guidance, in readiness for the first tranche of applications for designation by harbour authorities which is expected in spring 2014.

Code of Conduct for harbour directions published | News | News & Events | RYA

What's the verdict?
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Old 17 December 2013, 12:54   #46
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Here is the guidance for cowes harbour speed limits, although it makes no mention of the ability to maintain steerage that I can see.

Full document: COWES HARBOUR COMMISSION – GENERAL DIRECTIONS 1st JANUARY 2014

3.2. Speed Limit:
3.2.1.Every vessel navigating the Inner Harbour of Cowes or within 100 metres of the
Mean High Water Mark shall unless otherwise authorised by the Harbour Master
in writing, subject to the requirements of maintaining adequate steerage way and
control, be navigated at a speed not exceeding 6 knots through the water.
3.2.2.Complying with the maximum permitted speed will not exonerate the Master of
any vessel from the responsibility of reducing speed as necessary in the
observance of normal practice of safe seamanship. This includes, but is not
limited to, when passing mooring trots, pontoons, vessels alongside quays, jetties
or pontoons, vessels engaged in maritime works and when approaching the
Cowes Chain Ferry. Vessels shall at all times be navigated with care and caution
and in such a manner so as not to endanger the safety of other persons or cause
nuisance to the occupants of any other vessel, person or property.
3.3. Wash - A vessel shall not be navigated or manoeuvred in any part of the Inner
Harbour or within 100 metres of the shore in a manner or at a speed so as to cause
wash to be generated that may cause damage to or endanger the safety of other
persons, vessels or property.
3.4. Navigation in the Shrape Watersports Area – Within the Shrape Watersports
Area the following activities are permitted to exceed the 6knot speed limit if safe to
do so:
i. Dinghy and Day Boat Sailing
ii. Wind Surfing COWES HARBOUR COMMISSION – GENERAL DIRECTIONS, 1
st of January 2014
Page 10 of 23
iii. Kite Surfing
iv. Rowing
v. Support and rescue craft involved in the above activities.

3.5. Speed Exemptions - General Direction 3.2.1 and 3.2.2 shall not apply to any
vessel on any occasion when it is being used by the Police, Fire Service or RNLI
or other recognised rescue or patrol craft in an emergency situation, or for the
purposes of enforcing these General Directions, any Special Directions or the
Byelaws.
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Old 17 December 2013, 13:11   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nik View Post
Here is the guidance for cowes harbour speed limits, although it makes no mention of the ability to maintain steerage that I can see.

Full document: COWES HARBOUR COMMISSION – GENERAL DIRECTIONS 1st JANUARY 2014

3.2. Speed Limit:
3.2.1.Every vessel navigating the Inner Harbour of Cowes or within 100 metres of the
Mean High Water Mark shall unless otherwise authorised by the Harbour Master
in writing, subject to the requirements of maintaining adequate steerage way and
control, be navigated at a speed not exceeding 6 knots through the water.
.
What couldn't you see?
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Old 17 December 2013, 13:14   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nik View Post
Here is the guidance for cowes harbour speed limits, although it makes no mention of the ability to maintain steerage that I can see.

Full document: COWES HARBOUR COMMISSION – GENERAL DIRECTIONS 1st JANUARY 2014

3.2. Speed Limit:
3.2.1.Every vessel navigating the Inner Harbour of Cowes or within 100 metres of the
Mean High Water Mark shall unless otherwise authorised by the Harbour Master
in writing, subject to the requirements of maintaining adequate steerage way and
control, be navigated at a speed not exceeding 6 knots through the water.
.
Am I missing summat
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Old 17 December 2013, 13:16   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poly View Post
What couldn't you see?
Do you just hover like a preying hawk, waiting, just waiting
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Old 17 December 2013, 13:19   #50
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Do you just hover like a preying hawk, waiting, just waiting
Willk taught me everything I know. Its more like a cat waiting to pounce, but then willk does have a thing for cats:

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