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Old 02 December 2008, 17:36   #11
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Haven't you reached Australia yet?!
Nope, I'm sitting on your pile of earth giggling quietly
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Old 02 December 2008, 17:54   #12
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Louise, I understand your comments and also why BIBOA would not want to be seen as elitist, never mind associated purely with one manufacturer.

But if that is where BIBOA want to be - represent the normal RIB users, and be recognised as the national authority on ribs (by rib owners not just the rya) then perhaps BIBOA should question if the 7.5m rule is appropriate for an event which will presumably place a significant demand on BIBOA resource in 2009/2010.

Especially since your membership is apparently dominated by 6-8m boats.

Finally, to say that there is no "scrutineering", or strict rules and that each boat is responsible for its own safety and then turn round and say no boats less than 7.5m is not just contradictory but potentially negates any "liability benefit" that BIBOA might have gained from saying "its up to you".
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Old 02 December 2008, 18:13   #13
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The rules have been (are being) drawn up by the organising committee, not by BIBOA. I'm not aware of any pending discussion on the 7.5m minimum LOA, however, if a number of potential entrants feel strongly enough they should get in touch with the organisers instead of moaning about it on a forum.

There is no reason why this event should place a significant demand on BIBOA resources as BIBOA is not the sole organiser and the event is being supported by Scorpion.

I know that a lot of thought and discussion went into the decision to restrict the event to boats over 7.5m. The 'Rules' section states that guidelines will be issued and the organisers "reserve the right to reject a boat from entry if they feel an entry poses a risk to themselves or others". I don't understand what you consider to be contradictory. At the end of the day, it is up to the Rally organisers (and that is not just BIBOA) to decide how they want to run the event.
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Old 03 December 2008, 06:38   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Louise
The rules have been (are being) drawn up by the organising committee, not by BIBOA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nos4r2
Appears to be a BIBOA event?
So its not a BIBOA event then? Surprised you picked up on the rest of Nos' statement without answering this question then. If its not a BIBOA event then should the BIBOA logo be in a prominent spot on the event website?
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There is no reason why this event should place a significant demand on BIBOA resources as BIBOA is not the sole organiser and the event is being supported by Scorpion.
oh so it IS a BIBOA event, well partly, oh and it IS a Scorpion event - oh I see how Nos' is getting confused... ...perhaps BIBOA should suggest the organisers clearly state on the website the role of each organisation.
Quote:
The 'Rules' section states that guidelines will be issued and the organisers "reserve the right to reject a boat from entry if they feel an entry poses a risk to themselves or others". I don't understand what you consider to be contradictory.
yes but elsewhere they try to use the old "The safety of each boat is the responsibility of each Skipper, so boats will not be expected to go through a formal scrutinising process" get out - but doing that, and then stipulating rules on size and that the event can kick you out at any stage IS contradictory. The organisers are either making judgements on the suitability of craft or they are not.
Quote:
At the end of the day, it is up to the Rally organisers (and that is not just BIBOA) to decide how they want to run the event.
yes but its up to BIBOA to decide if an "exclusive" event is representing the interests of its membership and presenting the image they wish to the Ribbing community.
Quote:
I'm not aware of any pending discussion on the 7.5m minimum LOA, however, if a number of potential entrants feel strongly enough they should get in touch with the organisers instead of moaning about it on a forum.
I'm not a potential entrant (taking my boat round WOULD be fool hardy). However I am a potential BIBOA member - but the image BIBOA presents (whether intentionally or not) is that its for Big "offshore" ribs.

PS - I support the concept of the event; and the concept of BIBOA - but don't feel BIBOA does anything to encourage ME to join.
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Old 03 December 2008, 07:01   #15
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PS - I support the concept of the event; and the concept of BIBOA - but don't feel BIBOA does anything to encourage ME to join.
..... perhaps you should heed the words of Groucho Marx.. "I don't want to belong to any club that will accept people like me as a member"
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Old 03 December 2008, 07:15   #16
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Polwart, it's really quite simple. As it says on the Rally website, Patrick Byrne, MD of Scorpion, conceived the idea and Scorpion is funding the website, publicity, secretarial support, etc. BIBOA and RIB International were approached to become partners in the event. From BIBOA's point of view, some of our members are on the organising committee (bringing with them their knowledge and experience of organising races, cruises and world record attempts and taking part in endurance events such as this) and, no doubt, some publicity for the event will find its way onto the BIBOA website and the club magazine. That's about it, as far as I can see.

Quote:
elsewhere they try to use the old "The safety of each boat is the responsibility of each Skipper, so boats will not be expected to go through a formal scrutinising process" get out - but doing that, and then stipulating rules on size and that the event can kick you out at any stage IS contradictory. The organisers are either making judgements on the suitability of craft or they are not.
I would imagine that what this means is that the boats will not be subjected to the rigorous scutineering process which happens before races (as this is not a race) but boats will be expected to be seaworthy. Can you imagine the furore if an event ran in which anyone could turn up in a boat in any state, (e.g. engine hanging on by one bolt, one tube partially deflated) and be allowed to take part? IMHO not contradictory, just plain sensible!

Quote:
yes but its up to BIBOA to decide if an "exclusive" event is representing the interests of its membership and presenting the image they wish to the Ribbing community.
It's hardly an 'exclusive' event. As I said before, it sounds like a great event so why shouldn't BIBOA be involved? I'm sure this event will be of great interest to many of our members, whether as 7.5m+ RIB owners or potential crew members or just armchair enthusiasts.

Quote:
I am a potential BIBOA member - but the image BIBOA presents (whether intentionally or not) is that its for Big "offshore" ribs.

PS - I support the concept of the event; and the concept of BIBOA - but don't feel BIBOA does anything to encourage ME to join.
Perhaps you could explain how you have come to the conclusion that BIBOA is for big offshore RIBs only please? What does BIBOA need to do to encourage you to join?
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Old 03 December 2008, 09:39   #17
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BIBOA and RIB International were approached to become partners in the event.
I guess that's the bit that's confusing me. What does being a "partner" mean? You are contributing cash? Its running under your 'banner' for some sort of insurance reason? Or you are helping to run the event. The fact that BIBOA members are involved with the organisation is not in itself a reason for BIBOA's to be involved. There are RYA members involved but the RYA is not a partner.

Quote:
Perhaps you could explain how you have come to the conclusion that BIBOA is for big offshore RIBs only please? What does BIBOA need to do to encourage you to join?
Louise, the same way that anyone comes to conclusions on any organisation that they might consider joining. BIBOA's "public" image is what it portrays on its website, through the events it runs, word of mouth etc. - if BIBOA want's me to percieve something else then it needs to push out that message.

Things you could consider to attract members with smaller boats...
  1. Organise cruises/events specifically for smaller boats (why would I join in the majority of your events are targetted at offshore/longer distances). If these things go on - but are less structured than the "big" cruises that get mentioned here/RI etc then look at the PR for small stuff.
  2. Base membership fees on boat engine/size (compare your fees to most sailing class assocs - and you will see they are quite high)
  3. Review your "image" in terms of the photostock you use, and statements like "the smallest boat is 4.5m with 50HP".
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Old 03 December 2008, 09:43   #18
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if we see an event, organisation that does something new or different, we moan. If something doesn't suit us exactly, we moan.
Richard, is it purely a British trait to be resentful of anyone making constructive comment or suggestion?
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Old 03 December 2008, 10:19   #19
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I guess that's the bit that's confusing me. What does being a "partner" mean? You are contributing cash? Its running under your 'banner' for some sort of insurance reason? Or you are helping to run the event. The fact that BIBOA members are involved with the organisation is not in itself a reason for BIBOA's to be involved. There are RYA members involved but the RYA is not a partner.
You're looking far too deeply into all this. AFAIK BIBOA is not contributing any cash. I have no idea what the insurance arrangements are for the event. BIBOA is helping to run the event by way of providing knowledge and experience, and publicity to our members. If you are so interested in the intricacies of the organisational set up, why not email Patrick at Scorpion and ask him?

Quote:
Things you could consider to attract members with smaller boats...
  1. Organise cruises/events specifically for smaller boats (why would I join in the majority of your events are targetted at offshore/longer distances). If these things go on - but are less structured than the "big" cruises that get mentioned here/RI etc then look at the PR for small stuff.
  2. Base membership fees on boat engine/size (compare your fees to most sailing class assocs - and you will see they are quite high)
  3. Review your "image" in terms of the photostock you use, and statements like "the smallest boat is 4.5m with 50HP".
Thanks for your feedback. None of BIBOA's cruises are organised/targetted for specific sizes of RIB. Cruise organisers are all unpaid volunteers and organise the cruises as they see fit. Some cruises are more suited to larger RIBs but if members with smaller craft want to take part, usually a place can be found for them on a larger boat. By way of an example: shortly after we first joined, Richard wanted to join a channel islands cruise but only had a 3m SIB. He got in touch with the organiser, who put him in touch with members going who had spare places in their boats. He had a great weekend boat-hopping and his SIB was used for getting ashore at various places. Some cruises would be suitable for members with smaller boats. We are always looking for people willing to organise cruises so if what is currently on offer doesn't suit, why not join up and organise something yourself?

I disagree that our fees are high. I did a quick Google of Sailing Associations and randomly clicked on a few. Some didn't state their fees but those who did were as follows (all for individual adult membership for which BIBOA charges 50): 65, 125, 120, 55.

Regarding our photostock and statement - we are being honest. They are actual photos taken by members during BIBOA events and the smallest main boat owned by a member is 4.5m. I guess we could be dishonest and pretend otherwise but that's not the way we like to operate. Sorry if that has put you off joining but, as I said previously, you do not need to even own a boat to join.
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Old 03 December 2008, 10:57   #20
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You're looking far too deeply into all this.

heez gott de arrse cuz heez ownly gott a likkul wan


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."I don't want to belong to any club that will accept people like me as a member"
thay wudunt av mee

i ad a leter bak saiyin.....

deer garF

fuk orf

yoov got noe fkin chanse yew bbastud

kynd reegards

looweeze

sp. weer keapin yorr fiffty kwid az wel
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