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Old 11 October 2011, 05:46   #31
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We spent the half hour rounding up cold shivering kids in driving rain and ferrying them ashore whilst tying all the dinghies on to a mark sowe could go back for them later. It was a long afternoon by the time we had righted, de rigged and towed the boats back to the club. .
Been there, done that etc etc.... Must have been one h*lluva squall to knock over that many Oppies!

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At one point we had kids in the water all around us and couldn't safely start the engine until we had a load of them onboard and clear water behind. These are the times when a propguard could have added extra security.
...or minced them properly as discussed above.

A couple of long ropes aboard mean not only can you tow, but also useful for throwing & recovering people.

One variation I was involved with at the Oppie nationals in Harwich back in 19canteen was they had a couple of Cheverton type launches, the idea being that the ribs did the rescue, and bar the almost hypothermic ones who were taken straight in they were dropped off in the Cheverton to stay relatively warm out the wind (high sides) which then pottered over to pick up the hull, leaving the ribs to get on with rescue. The two of them did a "ferry service" back to the shore full of kids and towing a string of de- masted hulls. It worked, although the racing was a good mile or so away form the beach (racing outside the harbour, sailing club inside) so may not be appropriate for your setup if your course is closer to the shore.
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Old 11 October 2011, 07:04   #32
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Our club first rescue boat had the ultimate prop guard - it was rowing boat!

As said before best guard is training training and more training...don't think what if or if. What next air bags fitted to bumpers of cars! The safer the cars have got more accidents - would you drive as fast if you knew if you bumped it it would kill you!


The duty of care is you have trained crews, RYA state level 2, but make it safety boat, make it a x number hrs begore going out solo. Put lower age limit on helm out club is 18 years old.

RYA don't recommend them...so infact your are going against the govern body to fit them...


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Old 11 October 2011, 07:10   #33
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ooh forgot to add , 3 mins without air means brian damage...so the rib must get there before then...every second helps ...cut arm or permanent mental damage...

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Old 11 October 2011, 08:31   #34
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Our club first rescue boat had the ultimate prop guard - it was rowing boat!

As said before best guard is training training and more training...don't think what if or if. What next air bags fitted to bumpers of cars! The safer the cars have got more accidents - would you drive as fast if you knew if you bumped it it would kill you!


The duty of care is you have trained crews, RYA state level 2, but make it safety boat, make it a x number hrs begore going out solo. Put lower age limit on helm out club is 18 years old.

RYA don't recommend them...so infact your are going against the govern body to fit them...


S.
S, You make some valid points, but just to be clear you are not "going against the governing body" by fitting a prop guard. The implication from their guidance is I think quite clear that they don't encourage them - but they don't say not to use them.

I'm also not completely convinced in the OP's situation where he has lots of volunteers that insisting they all do the full Safety Boat course is actually the best use of their time. That is one less weekend per member he can use them on the water. The course covers stuff, which whilst interesting might not be considered essential to a sailing club: e.g. rescuing kayaks, windsurfs, kitesurfers, marklaying (which with 10 ribs, presumably most don't get involved in), race management (which again with 10 ribs is easier kept separate). It sounds like they have a local programme appropriate to local needs which is great. In reality they seem to have a large number of opportunities for disaster but little real cause for concern which means they must be doing something right. I'd bet if you say "Safety Boat + X hours of on water experience" that this becomes the entry level, not "has convinced the club safety officer they are competent and confident in the situation required of them".

I'm not convinced a "lower age limit of 18" is relevant. I've seen 17 yr olds handle a boat far better than I do. Now the gravitas of a serious rescue situation is huge, but I've met 25 and even 45 year olds who I wouldn't want to be in that position of responsibility. If someone has been driving power boats since they were 8, has an advanced power boat ticket (which they can do at 17), did the safety boat ticket at 16 when the RYA let them, and is a qualified dinghy instructor (again permitted at 16), are you really going to turn them away in favour of a 19 yr old who has just done a back to back PB2 and Safety Boat course?
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Old 11 October 2011, 10:42   #35
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Yes - each to there own - the reason we have 18 was not due to skill but as I said before the emotional aftermath of an event...not messing up a young persons life during exams etc.

but really train, train and train more...if pair up inexperience with more who will let them train more...

Level 2 means they can drive in safe manner under normal circumstances, safety boat gives the skills to deal with different rescue craft but also gives another two days of training on boats handling at close quarters...

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Old 11 October 2011, 10:56   #36
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Yes - each to there own - the reason we have 18 was not due to skill but as I said before the emotional aftermath of an event...not messing up a young persons life during exams etc.
Yes and when you first mentioned it I was quite impressed with how seriously you were taking it, but:

(1) You can leave school at 16. (In Scotland you can quite feasibly leave school at 16 after your Higher's and go to University. Whilst there were still exams there, and pulling dead people out the water wouldn't have been good for my concentration, that would apply right through until about 22 for the average person...).

(2) People who chose not to go into academia (or for whom that decision is made for them) could be very good rescue boat crew and might get an excellent springboard into a world of responsibility at 16 rather than signing on.

(3) You can get married and have children at 16. The potential to "get knocked up" or to have "knocked someone up" at that age has at least as much risk to your mental well being and immediate career prospects.

(4) I'm fairly sure you'll find some 16/17 yr olds on duty at the side of your local council pool with similar levels of responsibility and the potential for being a bit messed up if if all goes wrong.
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Old 11 October 2011, 12:11   #37
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ooh forgot to add , 3 mins without air means brian damage...so the rib must get there before then...every second helps ...cut arm or permanent mental damage...

S.
Or even worse, a damaged Brian!!
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Old 11 October 2011, 12:46   #38
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Training is obviously the best way forward, but only if it is coupled to experience. In the real world, unless they are out there training in horrendous conditions pulling people out of the water in a gale and large waves, there isn't any training that really prepares you for that. You go out with as much info on various scenarios playing in your head and hope it comes together when needed. No 2 situations are ever the same.

The RYA held a race officers course at the weekend in Weymouth that some of our mob attended. One thing that apparently came out of it was that the RYA don't allow anyone under the age of 18 to drive a rescue boat without a qualified person on board. I haven't seen the documentation yet, so can't confirm this totally as yet.
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Old 11 October 2011, 13:11   #39
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Training is obviously the best way forward, but only if it is coupled to experience. In the real world, unless they are out there training in horrendous conditions pulling people out of the water in a gale and large waves, there isn't any training that really prepares you for that. You go out with as much info on various scenarios playing in your head and hope it comes together when needed. No 2 situations are ever the same.
If there was a prop guard on the RIB in these conditions, performance might be so bad they might need a rescue too!

I discourage prop guards to avoid complacancy. Ideal is a large main propped motor with a jet kicker for close in manuvering.
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Old 11 October 2011, 13:53   #40
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In Gale conditions - I doubt that an inexperience Crew would deal with it...and sailing should not been taken place...Lifeboat Job and leave the rescuing to the "professionals" (inverted commas because these professionals don't get paid!)

Polwart - re age: duty of care and legal definition child is under 18 for the PVG. yes they can do all you say but it's not the club putting them in that situation...

Train, Train Train for crew and a good course on weather and event planning for organisers!

Just because you can sail does not mean you should! I know arrogant sailors I pulled one out unconscious in marginal conditions- we cancelled the sailing activity due to weather as club but He decide he was better....he was luck myself and crew were still at the club to scramble the Club RIB.


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