Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 
Old 02 October 2013, 16:17   #61
Member
 
kerny's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Ashton-under-Lyne Lancs
Boat name: IMOGEN
Make: Air-Craft 5.4
Length: 5m +
Engine: Etec 60
MMSI: 235087492
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 7,040
RIBase
Send a message via Skype™ to kerny
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterM View Post
Haha.....:-)
It's true ... true I tell yer Jambo will back me up
__________________

__________________
Member of S.A.B.S. (Lancashire Division)
kerny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02 October 2013, 16:38   #62
Member
 
Country: USA
Town: Oklahoma USA
Length: no boat
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 36
About visiting with MAIB

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poly View Post
Gary - they are only required to respond to written freedom of information requests (including email) but not "chat" or phonecalls. You may also be aware that all deaths, including the cause of death are registered on a central database (actually there are separate registers in Scotland (and Wales and NI?)). The cause of death MAY not actually state propellor strike - but it would probably list "boating accident". I think when you see how few people die from boating then you might realise that there are bigger fish to fry.
I have already made some inquiries at MAIB and was already aware of some of the other databases.

As to "how few people die boating" we can all have an opinion since UK data does not seem to be available, US data is incomplete, and worldwide data is not available.

Plus as seen in the pyramid graphic produced earlier by another Ribnet contributor, deaths are only the tip of the iceberg. For every death there are probably many serious injuries. In the propeller safety realm in which I operate, many of those injuries are life changing debilitations. And as this group has argued, many of those accidents are preventable. In my opinion, that is a fish worth frying.

gary
__________________

__________________
PGIC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02 October 2013, 16:52   #63
RIBnet admin team
 
Poly's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Boat name: imposter
Make: FunYak
Length: 3m +
Engine: 2 stroke YAM 20 HP
MMSI: 235089819
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,113
Quote:
Originally Posted by PGIC View Post
As to "how few people die boating" we can all have an opinion since UK data does not seem to be available,
took me less than 5 minutes to find this:

Deaths in England and Wales (thats 90% of the UK) from:
Water transport accidents
2007 - 26
2008 - 29
2009 - 23
2010 - 14
2011 - 18

That is ALL water transport accidents. Common sense tells you that only a small fraction of those are prop related.

It is from here:
Mortality statistics: every cause of death in England and Wales. Full data and visualisation | Society | theguardian.com
__________________
Poly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02 October 2013, 17:49   #64
RIBnet supporter
 
Pikey Dave's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: South Yorks
Boat name: Black Pig
Make: Ribcraft
Length: 5m +
Engine: DF140a
MMSI: 235111389
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 7,579
RIBase
Quote:
Originally Posted by PGIC View Post
Our mission statement might help clear up your confusion.
Our Mission :: Propeller Guard Information Center

Most of my comments on RIB.net have to do with the first two bullet points.

Make boating safer by:
  • Increasing awareness of propeller injuries and their severity
  • Increasing awareness of existing propeller injury avoidance devices
As Heddon Johnson mentioned when he was on BBC, he sees the use of kill cords being mandatory at some future time, maybe even after he is gone.

I see a future with fewer severe recreational boat propeller accidents, hopefully before I am gone.

Just as Heddon is trying move things along a little faster toward his vision of compulsary wear, I am somewhat of a facilitator trying to trying to move things along toward my vision a little faster than they would otherwise move.

We have stayed neutral on the topic of compulsary wear of kill cords, but do encourage wearing them whenever possible.

I do encourage the establishment of recreational boating accident databases around the world and efforts to reduce under reporting.

Prop guards and kill cords are just two of the MANY tools that can be used to prevent or mitigate propeller injuries in certain situations. Besides physical devices, those tools also include boating safety education, Public Service Announcements, situational awareness, and behavioral changes.

News coverage of local and high profile accidents is yet one more tool. For example, awareness of the Milligan accident is a major force behind the current kill cord discussion in the UK which is raising awareness of propeller injuries, of the risk of propeller injuries, and of ways such accidents might be prevented in the future.

I hope that clears things up for you.

gary
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pikey Dave View Post
Ah, right. So you have a vested interest in promoting the use of prop guards?
Quote:
Originally Posted by PGIC View Post
About visiting with MAIB



I have already made some inquiries at MAIB and was already aware of some of the other databases.

As to "how few people die boating" we can all have an opinion since UK data does not seem to be available, US data is incomplete, and worldwide data is not available.

Plus as seen in the pyramid graphic produced earlier by another Ribnet contributor, deaths are only the tip of the iceberg. For every death there are probably many serious injuries. In the propeller safety realm in which I operate, many of those injuries are life changing debilitations. And as this group has argued, many of those accidents are preventable. In my opinion, that is a fish worth frying.

gary
So what are you actually proposing Gary, I see lots of words, liberally sprinkled with management speak, but in the words of one of your countrymen "where's the beef"? Give it to us straight, in as few words as possible; what do you want & how do you propose to achieve it? It's no good being woolly & saying you want fewer accidents, better statistics, world peace etc. You say a lot, but at the same time say nowt. I can't help but feel that you have a hidden agenda & the longer you waffle on, the stronger the feeling gets. If you want to preserve any shred of credibility it's time to be straight & stop beating around the bush.
Come on man out with it, what are you selling?
__________________
Rule#2: Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level & then beat you with experience.
Rule#3: Tha' can't educate pork.
Rule#4: See rule#5
Pikey Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02 October 2013, 18:23   #65
Member
 
Country: USA
Town: Oklahoma USA
Length: no boat
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poly View Post
took me less than 5 minutes to find this:
Deaths in England and Wales (thats 90% of the UK) from:
Water transport accidents
I openly admit I am not currently well versed in UK water / medical / death databases. But I know enough from similar databases in the US it usually takes quite a bit of time and study to make sure you are finding exactly what you need.

As per the UK paper we cited a couple times earlier, WAter Incident Database (WAID) is the group making progress on trying to bring these statistics together in the UK. They cite a 2005 study of 1997/98 through 2003/04 hospital stay data that indicates about 2200 people were admitted UK hospitals in that era (over about 6 years) from boating related accidents.

I started to make some wild assumptions from US data to guess some percent of those 2200 hospitalizations that might represent propeller injuries but there are way too many unknowns involved, plus my current unfamiliarity with the UK databases makes it far too easy to make mistakes.

However, back to my original point, while some counts of deaths or hospitalizations is helpful, to really address boating safety issues a database more of the nature of the USCG BARD database that collects many pieces of information and data on each accident is needed. While BARD has its shortcomings, it makes it much easier to identify groups of similar accidents and begin to investigate what types of devices or measures might have prevented or mitigated those accidents than broad death or hospitalization counts.

gary
__________________
PGIC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02 October 2013, 18:31   #66
SPR
Trade member
 
SPR's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Central Belt of Scotland
Boat name: Puddleduck III
Make: Bombard
Length: 5m +
Engine: 50 HP
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,066
I know this has been posted before:

http://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollection...Info-Sheet.pdf

RYA view on prop guards.

S.
__________________
SPRmarine / SPRtraining
RYA Training Courses & Safety Equipment Sales
SPR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02 October 2013, 18:36   #67
Member
 
Country: USA
Town: Oklahoma USA
Length: no boat
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pikey Dave View Post
Come on man out with it, what are you selling?
I sell foam and vinyl to prisons to cover weight lifting equipment.
Strength Tech Weightlifting Products

and here is my photo from long ago when i lifted competitively


That is what I sell. I hope that is ok with you. If you would like to buy some, you need to open a prison on this side of the pond because it costs too much to ship it out of the country.

gary
__________________
PGIC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02 October 2013, 18:41   #68
RIBnet admin team
 
Nos4r2's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: The wilds of Wiltshire
Boat name: WhiteNoise/Dominator
Make: Ballistic 7.8/SR5.4
Length: 7m +
Engine: Opti 225/Yam 85
MMSI: 235090687/235055163
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,645
RIBase
I think what Pikey Dave was asking wasn't the question you answered.
__________________
Need spares,consoles,consumables,hire,training or even a new boat?

Please click HERE and HERE and support our Trade Members.

Join up as a Trade member or Supporter HERE
Nos4r2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02 October 2013, 18:44   #69
Member
 
kerny's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Ashton-under-Lyne Lancs
Boat name: IMOGEN
Make: Air-Craft 5.4
Length: 5m +
Engine: Etec 60
MMSI: 235087492
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 7,040
RIBase
Send a message via Skype™ to kerny
Come on Pikey stick some pics up and show him how you lift mushrooms
__________________
Member of S.A.B.S. (Lancashire Division)
kerny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02 October 2013, 18:57   #70
Member
 
Jeff Hutcheon's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: wirral
Boat name: midlife Too
Make: COBRA
Length: 6m +
Engine: 15O E-TEC
MMSI: one day !!
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerny View Post

Actually I work very hard for my cash Peter
And me!!
__________________

__________________
MEMBER OF S.A.B.S. (WIRRAL DIVISION)
Jeff Hutcheon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:39.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.