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Old 21 November 2006, 10:56   #1
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Aux placement

Hi folks,

I was wondering if anyone has considered putting their aux at the bow to aid weight distribution?

When the boat was built I had them fit a 6hp aux (25kg), next to the main ...(main engine 211kg), as a consequence, I think the boat possibly is stern heavy.. (I only have experience of boats that were set up incorrectly so this is an experiment ) I intend having a go at putting the aux up in the bow.

I had a sampson post fitted there, I think this would be ideal as a mounting attachment to redistribute the weight ,unfortunatly I'm at a loss as to how to securely attach it. A pad as supplied on one of those raising aux legs might work, it's the fixing to the sampson post thats the issue.


Has anyone felt the need to or actually done this?
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Old 21 November 2006, 11:12   #2
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Is the auxillery 4 stroke or 2 stroke?
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Old 21 November 2006, 11:13   #3
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it's four stroke and I've limited deck space..good one though.
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Old 21 November 2006, 12:07   #4
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Unless properly mounted it will be smashed to bits with the extra movement at the bow.

If you need some extra weight up front use it wisely and get a bigger anchor and some extra chain. Either that or some sand bags that you can lob overboard if you need to.
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Old 21 November 2006, 13:43   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codprawn View Post
Unless properly mounted it will be smashed to bits with the extra movement at the bow.

If you need some extra weight up front use it wisely and get a bigger anchor and some extra chain. Either that or some sand bags that you can lob overboard if you need to.
The movement up there did concern me,I had decided to remove the post after taking some measurements and get the stainless mount welded on (then bolt the wooden pad to that) I'm trying to move neccessary weight forward as well as mount the engine.

However I think you might be right as I've never seen another one mounted like this....
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Old 21 November 2006, 14:45   #6
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It'll get drenched far worse if you stuff too if you mount it in the bow-one of the times you may well need it to work...
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Old 25 November 2006, 08:49   #7
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Also bear in mind that it may get in the way when you're anchoring, climbing aboard from a pontoon, etc.
Why don't you rely on the dependability of your spanking new main motor, sell the aux, and lob all the coins you get for it into the anchor locker
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Old 25 November 2006, 10:58   #8
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Also bear in mind that it may get in the way when you're anchoring, climbing aboard from a pontoon, etc.
Why don't you rely on the dependability of your spanking new main motor, sell the aux, and lob all the coins you get for it into the anchor locker
First class,

I never thought about the anchoring implications, now THATS a good reason for not seeing it done elsewhere.

climbing aboard from a pontoon-aux cowel would be softer on your face when boarding blathered.....which I have never done.......
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Old 25 November 2006, 11:11   #9
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Isn't there something like Sea Start in your area. Sell the engine and use the money for that.

Secondly the floor on the front of your boat is different to mine. I don't have that ridge that you can see in your picture of the samson post. Is it of any significance, looks like its a bracing bar for the post. Is that correct ?
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Old 25 November 2006, 21:00   #10
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Isn't there something like Sea Start in your area. Sell the engine and use the money for that.

Secondly the floor on the front of your boat is different to mine. I don't have that ridge that you can see in your picture of the samson post. Is it of any significance, looks like its a bracing bar for the post. Is that correct ?
The floor in the bow looks like that because RC glass in a pad as they do for the A Frame (two individual ones) this allows them to fit the stainless without compromising the hull.

Re sea start; I can't get the self reliance thing out of my head. I've settled on having two stainless sections (bit like butterfly wings) welded to a aux pad
which in turn will be welded to the samson post, on the inside. A further pad (material to be determined) for the skeg, bolted to the floor.

The anchor will still be operational
The fixings/welding will be forkin strong so no damage due to movement
An aux cowel cover in case of a dam good stuffing...
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Old 25 November 2006, 22:14   #11
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Self reliance is essential. I am against things like Sea Start in principle - shouldn't we all look out for each other at sea?
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Old 26 November 2006, 05:42   #12
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I am against things like Sea Start in principle -
WTF

Are you a member of the RAC/AA/Greenflag/Britannia Rescue/Direct Line Rescue etc for your fleet of cars (I think Gav would suggest that as a Landy owner it is a prerequisite ) ?

I appreciate that you are reasonably mechanically knowledgable BUT detailed fault diagnostics, and repair of an outboard hanging off the back of a boat at sea isn't going to be much fun, even if you have the right tools parts etc with you.


Quote:
shouldn't we all look out for each other at sea?
I don't have fundamental problem with that ethos - but its not a principal I would rely on. And if I needed a long tow or serious repair then I don't have an issue with the fact that this will cost money (for fuel, wear and tear etc). If you ever "helped me out" like that - and wouldn't take it then you would certainly be getting bought a lot of pints or a donation to the RNLI (or equivalent before we start that thread again )
With a big boat like yours - a good proportion of ribnet members boats would struggle to tow you any significant distance. In addition when you engage a professional you can expect a degree of skill, care and competence - othewise you are assuming that anyone offering a tow has the boat, and ability to complete it safely.

If we could all just rely on other boaters coming to our aid - then the RNLI's call out figures would be much lower: mechanical problems account for a huge part of their work.

Surely SeaStart is similar to insurance (the tax man thinks so and takes his insurance tax on it - that alone is bound to upset you Codprawn!) - in that you pays your money and hope never to use it, but if you do then it was money well spent (much cheaper than salvage!). Never heard anyone who has had to use it say anything negative about it. Not convinced it is a replacement for an aux though - as presumably they can't get to you instantly. My only issue with sea start is that its really a south coast only thing - so no use to me! It needs round the coast coverage to make it really useful - but I'm not sure there is enough business in remote places to make it viable.
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Old 26 November 2006, 06:17   #13
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..... RC glass in a pad as they do for the A Frame (two individual ones) this allows them to fit the stainless without compromising the hull......

IBWET: Have you got any pictures of the deck pads for the A frame? I'm interested in how they do this.
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Old 26 November 2006, 09:59   #14
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WTF

Are you a member of the RAC/AA/Greenflag/Britannia Rescue/Direct Line Rescue etc for your fleet of cars (I think Gav would suggest that as a Landy owner it is a prerequisite ) ?

Yes but you seem to be missing the point. Being a member of seastart is all very well but it gives you a sense of complacency that should never be present when boating. To compare a boat to a car sums it up in my opinion.

http://www.seastart.co.uk/seastart.html

Just look at the areas covered for a start. Basically you are buggered anywhere else in the UK.

People setting to sea with the attitude of "Doesn't matter what happens I am covered" are a big danger. What happens if their engine cuts in bad sea conditions and they are being swept towards some rocks? They will soon find out that self reliance is quite important.

I wonder how people manage a few years ago before sea start came along?
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Old 26 November 2006, 10:19   #15
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Codders,

You on the beer ?

I never take things for granted at sea. Ask anyone who has seen my boats. I just see Sea Start as a sensible back up if all else fails. As mentioned previously any sensible person has AA or similar cover for their car, why not get it for your boat. And I certainly don't want to call the RNLI out if I have done something simple that can be sorted by a man with a spanner in a couple of minutes. In a life and death situation yes call the RNLI, but don't be so pompous as to think they are your 'Free get you home service' If everyone had Sea Start or similar wouldn't life be so much easier for the rescue services.

As for looking after each other. Even with the aid of RIBNET its very hard to get company on a run. And seeing as I'm a shift worker its even harder for me.

With regards my advice IBWET I'm not familier with his area and was just offering guidance.

Sometimes if you can't say anything sensible then its probably wiser to say nothing....
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Old 26 November 2006, 10:20   #16
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People setting to sea with the attitude of "Doesn't matter what happens I am covered" are a big danger. What happens if their engine cuts in bad sea conditions and they are being swept towards some rocks? They will soon find out that self reliance is quite important.
Right and I didn't join Sea Start to get me out of that situation.
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Old 26 November 2006, 10:28   #17
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To compare a boat to a car sums it up in my opinion.
I think the analogy by the company's marketing department to car recovery is quite logical. It helps people understand the service they offer. MY comparison was that you probably have vehicle recovery - when it is actually quite feasible to arrange recovery after the event, but at sea you don't have that luxury.

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Just look at the areas covered for a start. Basically you are buggered anywhere else in the UK.
I refer you to my earlier message - where I though I made that point! However there are other services in other parts of the UK. I believe there is at least one (clyde sea recovery - and possibly Rathmor?) similar service covering most/all of the Clyde.
Quote:
People setting to sea with the attitude of "Doesn't matter what happens I am covered" are a big danger. What happens if their engine cuts in bad sea conditions and they are being swept towards some rocks? They will soon find out that self reliance is quite important.
I don't think SeaStart or similar services instill complacency in responsible people. Has there been an increase in lifeboat call outs since seastart began because people have given up on seamanship and maintainence because the seastart will fix it?

In the circumstances you describe then its possibly a lifeboat job anyway. Unless you have a very big aux and it is in place, and works perfectly etc. SeaStart etc are a service for when your life/boat are not on the line but the engine wont go and you and the boat need to get ashore.

Quote:
I wonder how people manage a few years ago before sea start came along?
They either got towed home by the lifeboat - or possibly someone else like a fishing boat who quite rightly might charge a fee for this. Alternatively they died . Actually I expect of a large number of sea starts call outs will be to Marinas with engines that fail to start - just as many of the AA's call outs will be to driveways with flat batteries etc.

SeaStart fulfils a market need. If there was a single service which covered the whole or most of the country I would seriously consider it. It is a little pricey IMHO - I would rather pay £50/year and £50 everytime I called them out.

Actually codders - with your infinite knowledge and huge boat - you could set up a service covering the bristol channel and welsh coast...
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Old 26 November 2006, 10:52   #18
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With regards my advice IBWET I'm not familier with his area and was just offering guidance.
IBWET - local links:

These guys offer a very similar service to SeaStart

http://www.clydesearecovery.com/

I'm not sure if Rathmor are offering a "cover service" or just a towing, etc service on an "as needed" basis. Pretty sure they post on here...

http://www.rathmor.co.uk/Vessel%20Recovery/

I think there was some discussion about setting up a service on Loch Lomond - not sure if it has happened or not?
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Old 26 November 2006, 14:03   #19
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Codders,

You on the beer ?

I never take things for granted at sea. Ask anyone who has seen my boats. I just see Sea Start as a sensible back up if all else fails. As mentioned previously any sensible person has AA or similar cover for their car, why not get it for your boat. And I certainly don't want to call the RNLI out if I have done something simple that can be sorted by a man with a spanner in a couple of minutes. In a life and death situation yes call the RNLI, but don't be so pompous as to think they are your 'Free get you home service' If everyone had Sea Start or similar wouldn't life be so much easier for the rescue services.

As for looking after each other. Even with the aid of RIBNET its very hard to get company on a run. And seeing as I'm a shift worker its even harder for me.

With regards my advice IBWET I'm not familier with his area and was just offering guidance.

Sometimes if you can't say anything sensible then its probably wiser to say nothing....

I was NOT having a go at you - it's just that MANY(not all) people these days will join sea start rather than learn some basic aspects of seamanship which includes making sure your craft is seaworthy.

If you look at the typical examples of Sea Start calls you will see exactly what I mean. As Polwart says many of them are silly little things like flat batteries etc.

The point I am trying to make is that boaters USED to be far more self reliant and services like Sea Start are giving people an excuse not to bother to learn the things they should. One day maybe Sea Start and the RNLI won't be around - what will they do then?
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Old 26 November 2006, 14:07   #20
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From SeaStart's own figures - over 90% of calls are resolved on the spot. That means that if the boaters had taken the trouble to carry some essential spares and get a little bit of knowledge then they could have sorted it out themselves.
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