Assistance Required for SS Tanks

Manos · 09 February 2003, 17:16

Hi to all (again LOL

)

I have finally got to the end of the ordeal called 'building a RIB to race and for leisure' however we have now reached the point of the tanks.
The idea (originally) was to fit plastic tanks but they only come in 70 ltrs as standard in SAfrica and to buy bigger will cost me a fortune. Also I would have needed 3x70 ltrs to have adequate fuel to finish a race or to just take it safely to France for a day or two.
The question to you all is (since I'm not an expert on tanks) shall I fit SS tanks?
If yes shall I fit them on deck for easy inspection or inside the hull?
If the SS tanks is a good idea does anyone know any good SS tank manufacturer in the UK who would be able to give some sound advise??
Any info highly appreciated.
Cheers

Pete7 · 09 February 2003, 18:06

Manos, I seem to remember discussing stainless steel fuel tanks with Dirk just before Christmas in the thread of all threads, but we don't want to go there I think.

Never had a problem with stainless steel tanks other than in the UK if you leave them empty over the winter then they breath moisture in bit by bit, as the weather and temperature changes so you end up with a small amount of water in the tank. A good water seperator will sort that, and I recommend a diesel one and the filtration is finer.

Tanks below the deck are great for freeing up space but getting at the sender unit when its below a glassed in deck can be fun. Alternatively fit a flow meter.

Seen lots of ways to fit S/S tanks. I like the Osprey way. They rap the whole tank in GRP then glass that into the boat. Although the GRP doesn't stick to S/S, because its rapped up in a blanket of GRP the tank isn't going to move. In the unlikely event you do need to change it, then its an angle grinder job to cut through the GRP to get it out.

One tip though, stick a rag in the filling hole whilst you fit them. Managed to drop a small torch into a glassed in tank which promptly shattered and the batteries rolled out behind the baffles. (Long story for a winters night and a log fire).

Pete

Dirk Diggler · 09 February 2003, 18:50

Sorry, I think this is a case of mistaken identity, it wasn't me discussing fuel tanks, but If I was going to I would reccommend ally.

gavin · 09 February 2003, 19:57

As far as I know 55 l plastic tanks for example are available in the plastimo catalog, send Tim a email he will tell you where we got a 55 l plastic tank , there was other sizes available too, we also run two stainless tanks 50 l each howver , I had to remove one this weekend as a weld had split 2 inches long and it leaked fuel, this was possible as it was above deck, so bear this in mind if fitting equipment below deck, have you ever seen the flexible tanks fitted each side of an RNLI D class lifeboat, gavin

Pete7 · 09 February 2003, 20:19

Dirk, my apologies, if it wasn't you.

Pete

Alan Priddy · 10 February 2003, 07:30

The problem with ally tanks in the UK is they "pant" which causes the welds to crack. There is not doubtt that you will be using the boat very hard and stainless is the only way to go. Bear in mind they are only as good as the manufacture. I would suspect that the people who have had problems in the past have had S/S tanks made by people who are not that good. SOC has two 1500ltr tanks that form part of the cabin floor and we have never had any problems. Alan P

Manos · 10 February 2003, 08:15

Pete7 you were right in saying that we were discussing the prons and cons of SS tanks Vs plastic. I am still not convinsed that SS tanks are any better than their plastic cousins.
Gavin 55 ltr plastic tanks will not be sufficient (I have a 200 bhp VMax F2 modified on the boat) which in full throtle drinks like mad more than a Honda 4-stroke 200 bhp (I was told - so don't come bashing my head about that comment LOLOL

)
AP as you know due to the very light weight of the boat and the amount of petrol I'll have to use I will have to fit SS tanks.
However, I'll fit them on deck rather than inside the hull one forward one aft so if anything goes wrong to be able to repar them quickly and without major sergury on the deck (thus avoiding to compromise hull integrity).
In any event I would need to see how much these tanks cost in this country and whether anyone knows of a reputable SS tank manufaturer who can help

Manos · 10 February 2003, 08:15

Pete7 you were right in saying that we were discussing the prons and cons of SS tanks Vs plastic. I am still not convinced that SS tanks are any better than their plastic cousins.
Gavin 55 ltr plastic tanks will not be sufficient (I have a 200 bhp VMax F2 modified on the boat) which in full throttle drinks like mad more than a Honda 4-stroke 200 bhp (I was told - so don't come bashing my head about that comment LOLOL

)
AP as you know due to the very light weight of the boat and the amount of petrol I'll have to use I will have to fit SS tanks.
However, I'll fit them on deck rather than inside the hull one forward one aft so if anything goes wrong to be able to repair them quickly and without major surgery on the deck (thus avoiding to compromise hull integrity).
In any event I would need to see how much these tanks cost in this country and whether anyone knows of a reputable SS tank manufacturer who can help

Julian · 10 February 2003, 08:57

Hi Manos

I use Fiberglass tanks and have done for the past 7 years, Had no problems at all with them. We have an inspection hatch on the decjk which gives us easy access to the fuel sender etc. We can also remove a large section of the fuel tank to get inside it too make sure its ok and clean any muck out if needed. I have no idea how much they cost though.

Julian

Manos · 10 February 2003, 09:05

I have thought about fibreglass tanks. They seem to work on small boats using petrol engines.
However, the problem with the Falcon is that the deck is an integral part of the hull and therefore although you can make small inspection hutches if anything goes wrong and you have to cut through the deck you compromise hull integrity.
This is a difficult one. I will check also with West marine see what plastic tanks they do (I know they do 100+ltr plastic petrol tanks) need to see dimensions and decide.
Anyway I have sometime to see what I will do at the end.
Thanks for the suggestion Julian much appreciated

Dirk Diggler · 10 February 2003, 09:55

Manos,

for plastic tanks you could try www.internationalmarinesupplies.co.uk , they normally have stock of lge plastic tanks, or for ally or stainless tanks you could use The Tank Company, located in Poole, Dorset. This is a very reputable manufacturer, there tanks are fitted by amongst others, Sunseeker, Princess, Fairline, and the RNLI. Not cheap but then you can't put a price on quality.

Manos · 10 February 2003, 10:04

Quote:

Originally posted by Dirk Diggler
or for ally or stainless tanks you could use The Tank Company, located in Poole, Dorset. This is a very reputable manufacturer,

Thanks Dirk

Do you have some details for this company??
Cheers

Dirk Diggler · 10 February 2003, 10:19

I haven't used them for a couple of years, but the details I have are as follows:

The Tank Company Ltd, 10 Chantry Park, 2 Cowley Rd, Nuffield Ind Estate, Poole, Dorset, BH17 0UJ tel 01202 682830, fax 01202 665572

dgpw · 10 February 2003, 11:07

I Manos.

If you can get the tanks under the deck thay are far better their. The reason for this is simply that the weight is lower. I understand that SS tans have to be pressure tested under EU regulations. This gives you 3 options.

1 Pay lost of money
2 Go over seas for the tanks
3 Find a SS company and ask for a water tank that will need good welds as it might be holding extreemly flamible water!!!!!

The problem with 3 is that I am not sure how the insurance company would veiw the water tanks if it was to fail. The last thing you want is fule in the bilge with the elctric pumps pumping it out.

MarkWildey · 10 February 2003, 11:14

Manos

I have used the Tank Company a number of times and they have always been happy to discuss and plan out my requirements.

Never had any problems with there stuff.

Regards

Mark

Manos · 10 February 2003, 11:45

Thanks for the info.
I understand the reason behind having tanks as low as poss, however, my only concern is what happens when something goes wrong?? I'll have to cut through the deck and .... the boat is history then.
I will make a few phone calls later on today and see what I can come out with.
Thanks you for the advise guys. Much appreciated

MarkWildey · 10 February 2003, 11:59

Manos

Before I start you need to understand that I have never raced seriously and don’t know a whole load about how a boat is made but if you asked me the way forward here is my opinion

1) If the tank is made correctly then you won’t have any problems. How many people do you know who have had under floor tanks that have resulted in the deck being ripped up to fix something ?. As Julian suggests on Scorpions there is an access hatch which allows inspection and access to fuel sensors etc etc. To my mind this is a good idea.

2) How many people who race have deck mounted tanks, none I expect. This is probably because the COG with a deck mounted tank will make the boat non-competitive. I’ll leave Dirk and Jon and the other experts on boat design to explain it.

Cheers

Mark

Manos · 10 February 2003, 12:30

Quote:

Originally posted by MarkWildey
I have never raced seriously

Neither have I Mark, neither have I. Is all done for the fun of it and due to age possibly once or twoice in a year. However, saying this one needs to be as competitive as he/she can be on the day. You agree??
I spoken to my mates in Falcon about the issue of the tanks and they are saying that for F£ racing in SAfrica they always use tanks mountd on the deck. Their justification is that there is easy access to the tanks and if a major repair is needed during a race it can be done there and then without much delay (which makes sence I recon).
The inspection hutch on the deck (to inspect the senders and a part of the lines) is not a problem on the constructual intergridy of the boat. The problem arises however when one has to get a tank out for repairing.
As you say though how many times that has happened?? Not much I don't think.
I will keep investigating and listening to see what I'll come up with at the end of it.
I promissed to my son that he will be my co-driver and he wants to win (being the No 3 in Glos County Squash under 13s is a competitive lad and he wants to be there. You know what I mean)
Any way many thanks for the advise will keep you posted.
Cheers

Manos · 10 February 2003, 12:32

Quote:

Originally posted by MarkWildey
I have never raced seriously

Neither have I Mark, neither have I. Is all done for the fun of it and due to age possibly once or twice in a year. However, saying this one needs to be as competitive as he/she can be on the day. You agree??
I spoken to my mates in Falcon about the issue of the tanks and they are saying that for F£ racing in SAfrica they always use tanks mounted on the deck. Their justification is that there is easy access to the tanks and if a major repair is needed during a race it can be done there and then without much delay (which makes sense I recon).
The inspection hutch on the deck (to inspect the senders and a part of the lines) is not a problem on the constructual integrity of the boat. The problem arises however when one has to get a tank out for repairing as you would need to cut through the deck thus compromising the hull and the deck.
As you say though how many times that has happened?? Not much I don't think.
I will keep investigating and listening to see what I'll come up with at the end of it.
I promised to my son that he will be my co-driver and he wants to win (being the No 3 in Glos County Squash under 13s is a competitive lad and he wants to be there. You know what I mean)
Any way many thanks for the advise will keep you posted.
Cheers

Charles · 10 February 2003, 13:26

Manos, why are you double posting everything?
Anyway, what about some lateral thinking??
To extend the range in my boat I am going to do the following:
Purchase 2 x 70 L flexible (bladder) tanks, they use these on jet-fighter aircraft. Due to having 2 outboards I will require a twin set-up. On a lot of fuel filters you have 4 brass connections, 2 in and 2 out. I will plumb the bladder tanks directly to these individually with a tap in the line in case I need to turn the fuel off quickly. When I start my journey I will burn the 140L of fuel from these external tanks, once this has been used up, I will simply disconnect the pipes from the flexible tanks, roll them up, and stow them out the way and continue on on my main tanks. No fuss no bother, PLUS, I will not have bulky S/S, plastic or any other kind of tank hogging space when it is not required.
My good friend (please everyone, don't insult him) Paul Lemmer is the importer of these high quality flexible tanks and have them in stock. The 70L tanks are in the region of £220.00.
Just an idea to think about.