any RIBs with CE A class certification?

marios · 15 May 2003, 12:10

iam looking for a long time now for a RIB around 6.5- 7m
and i never saw any rib on the web pages of different manif. that owns A class CE certification .
is it true?
and the second thing some manufacturers inform me that their products are class B while their products are actually C if i ask for sertificate...

please any one help me where i can find class A or minimum class B Rib

hope to hear from you soon guys

ribraff · 15 May 2003, 14:21

Hi Marios

Conforming to category B of the RCD is pretty tough, i have the documents for what is required ..... drop tests etc. We have built a few sets of tubes for Vessels that fall in to Cat. B.
There is a company in Poole, Dorset called Sorceror which i believe can build you an appropriate vessel. if yu are interested i'll see if i can find you a contact

dgpw · 15 May 2003, 14:41

ribraff
Could you give us an indication of waht is needed. I am quite interested as some boats get the coding and some don't. What is the criteria and how much does the stability upsidedown effect it.

Thanks

David

ribraff · 15 May 2003, 15:26

Sure, i'll have to be careful as this document is copyrighted and costs a bit to order. I've got it at home at the mo (light reading on the bog)

, i'll bring it in tomorrow or try and post something later

crazyhorse · 15 May 2003, 17:07

Here we go

Marios there is no ribs with a cat A ce mark at the moment.

Can you let us now which ribs are advertised as cat B that turn out to be cat C?

Codeing is for work boats and not for leisure craft.The two things are very different beasts.

Drop tests are to justifie a vessel strength,also used where builder cant prove the strength of the structure but can with a drop test results.

Work boat criteria is changing more inline with RCD stability iso 12217 stability tests.

See work boat link,

http://www.mcga.gov.uk/consultation/...ssel/index.htm

And a RCD link http://europa.eu.int/comm/enterprise...lines_2002.pdf

Enjoy

marios · 15 May 2003, 18:43

dear crazy horse ,
i dont like to publish now here who told me about the b class and funally it was a c but if you like to know
i can inform you in private

crazyhorse · 15 May 2003, 18:55

Ok,whatever suits

Hope the info is of help

Jason Norman · 15 May 2003, 19:57

Marious

There is a company called JMD who was building a 6m with a class B CE mark.

Jono Garton · 16 May 2003, 07:21

Marios

The Zodiac Pro 650 open that i am looking at buying is cat c for up to 13 people and cat b for up to five people.

dgpw · 16 May 2003, 09:56

It is the case though that on an advanced powerboat ticket you are only allowed to carry a max of 12. I think. Please correct if this is wrong.

Cookee · 16 May 2003, 10:13

dgpw - I think you will find that it is actually 12 passengers plus crew.

David Hickman · 16 May 2003, 15:20

12 passengers + crew it says in the yellow book (vessel therefore coded for 14 max). I agree with you cookie. See you in Torquay next week. Good luck

dgpw · 16 May 2003, 16:08

ar that sounds a bit better then. I did not realise that. Interesting.

Have a good weekend all I wish the weather would clear up

Jono Garton · 16 May 2003, 17:11

DGPW

Did you mean, max of 12 passenger to teach the Advanced ticket or drive under the advanced tictet.

If to teach its 3 : 1

crazyhorse · 16 May 2003, 17:30

Err Does the boat also need codeing for three mile inshore stuff with paying passengers?

I am aware of the offshore rules blurb.

Just havent looked at the inshore coastal stuff yet ?

Cookee · 16 May 2003, 18:05

David - That's Cookee with 2 ee's to you!

Look forward to seeing you in Torquay as well - The pits are at Daddyhole plain, and should be signposted from the harbour area. We will be there from Sat AM untill close of play on Sun. If anyone wants to have a look at the boat I'll be glad to give you the tour! There will be a commentary from the pier, and the racing will be on both days (Sat and Sun) with all of the racing taking part in Torbay.

Crazyhorse - Nice to meet you in Plymouth - Paying passengers means boat and crew need a ticket - it just depends on how far offshore you want to go as to the ticket you need!

David Hickman · 16 May 2003, 18:42

sorry cookee.
I am on safety/rescue both days. Did you see us on discovery?I missed it!!! Men are better than women at!!!!!!

Jahno, I think dgpw is thinking about the Advanced cert with commercial endorsement to drive a POWERBOAT under commercial conditions. This however does not mean a MOTORBOAT, that needs yachtmaster offshore or Coastal skipper with Comm Endorsement.

Reference the coding there is the red book for nominated departure points. not as strict.

crazyhorse · 16 May 2003, 19:10

Yep Cookee good to see ya both on Sunday and it was worth the wait.

Am I right in thinking that you need powerboat level 2 advanced with Medical(or commercial endorsement) as its known in the trade for takeing a rib out with paying passengers around the boys local stuff daylight ect.And the boat also has to be red book coded for local stuff

But you need a yachtmaster ticket with commercial endorsement (Medical only needed) for driving a motorboat with paying passengers offshore.

And if the rib is used inshore then you need it to be red book coded for local stuff by the MCA as well as personaly an advanced ticket with medical/endorsment.

Which must mean it is Surveyed by a qualified MCA surveyor at some point and Maybe at regular intervals even though it is opperating within a small area,but is taking passengers out for gain.

Should it carry a Tx disc thingy to say it is coded and in date.?

Paul Glatzel · 16 May 2003, 19:20

David: Re Advanced Certificate (commercially endorsed) Vs Coastal Skipper (commercially endorsed); My understanding is that the Advanced certificate is considered equivalent to Coastal Skipper and thus a commercially endorsed advanced certificate allows you do anything you can with CS. There is no distinction in the codes between a ‘Powerboat’ and a ‘Motorboat’ from my recollection (and brief scan of the yellow book).

Which leads onto the point about the number of paying passengers that can be taken with these qualifications. It is limited to 12 because this is the distinction between a small commercial craft and a ‘larger one’ (not sure the correct definition). Above 12 persons and/or 24m the coding issue is a whole different ball game and I cannot imagine anything other than big ship qualifications being valid.

Crazyhorse: If you are coding your RIB then it looks like you can go to CAT 2 (full wheelhouse) from the new draft codes. Re the Inshore stuff it really depends whether you are prepared to be tied to a NDP or wish to operate within a certain distance of a ‘Safe Haven’. Either way fee paying passengers any distance offshore necessitate coding.

I wrote a long thread ages ago at http://www.rib.net/forum/showthread....ghlight=coding which addresses the various coding levels. I would tend to not look at it as inshore and offshore as the codes define actual distance and everyone's definition of inshore/offshore varies anyway. One of my boats is coded to Cat 4 which is 20m from a safe haven in favourable weather & daylight and a commercially endorsed Advanced certificate is fine for that. As per my point above the motorboat Vs RIB distinction I don’t believe is valid.

Janho: The ratio for the Advanced course is actually 6:1 with three per boat. The recommendation is also that a suitably qualified person is on the second boat during the night nav. Personally I always run with 3:1 as I feel it gives a far better deal to attendees else they spend a high percentage of time without running with an Instructor in the case of two boats. If running with one boat then a second boat at night as safety cover strikes me as common sense too.

Paul

PS: Yes it does have a sticker to show it is coded & it is surveyed fully at the outset then it varies between owners own certification & resurveys by a survey

crazyhorse · 16 May 2003, 20:31

Thanks paul, for your help on this matter. It is of interest to me and a definitive will be of help to all.

So am I right in thinking that a rib Ce marked with a C and used for inshore training needs a MCA work boat survey and must comply to the work boat code and be signed off as such and will carry a sticker to say so,if it is used in any way commercialy.

I am aware of the cat 2 stuff as this will also cover the boat for inshore work,but am not sure what the regs are for local stuff with a smaller cat C Ce marked boat.

It seems that an open cat B ce RCD marked up rib will get 20 miles from a safe haven or NDP as a work boat,but what about a cat C boat,what will it get commercialy and is it going to be limited and need testing again to comply with the work boat code?.

If you can answer this your on for a pint.

I do believe that for over 20 miles and commercial operation you need a yachtmaster and a medical or commercial endorsment whichever sounds better over the bar.