Another Pacific 22 question!

Andy Cox · 08 December 2004, 16:09

Does anybody know anything of the history, or any other details relating to this: http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/view/F49158/ ? It looks like a Mk.1. I wasn't aware that there were any jet Mk.1's or is this likely to be a retro fit jobby?

Cheers all

Andy

Seb · 08 December 2004, 16:22

It is a MKI and is, as far as i know, a factory built boat. There are loads of MKI variants out there such as this but i believe most are 1 off builds so unlike the MoD standard spec boats, are rare to see second hand.

Speak to Neville about it if you need any real details - im almost positive that he sold it to the current owner.

Searider · 08 December 2004, 16:23

Andy,

I don't know first hand but don't believe that Halmatic made any Jet mk1s.
Saw a converted one a few years ago when I was looking to buy one for a customer- pete7 commented on this a few weeks ago.

Development mule for the mark II with Jet installation perhaps. Vospower jets from Vospers / Halmatic.

240hp at 3500rpm - sounds a bit like the Yanmar fitted in the Navy mkIIs?

Not thinking of changing yours already?

Andy Cox · 08 December 2004, 16:31

Hi Duncan, no I'm not thinking of changing mine yet, but was talking to someone this afternoon who'd seen this ad. Agreed, it's got Yanmar written all over it, but I seem to remember someone mentioned on here about a Mk.1 that had been converted to jet and turned into bit of a pig. Hope you're keeping well.
Andy

Searider · 08 December 2004, 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Cox

I seem to remember someone mentioned on here about a Mk.1 that had been converted to jet and turned into bit of a pig. Hope you're keeping well.
Andy

That was Pete7 - I also looked at when it was offered - it was a bit of a woofer - but probably cleaned up OK for someone with deep pockets!

Yes, keeping well at the moment - just running things down in the run up to Christmas.

Seb · 08 December 2004, 16:35

If you take a look at the hull design, youll notice that it is considerably different to an outdrive MKI.

The Chine is considerably lower and more defined than the MoD boats and towards the stern, the upper 'cluster' of spray rails is missing.

I beleve the one that Pete7 mentioned was a DIY job and was basically a jet MoD P22 which handled poorly as the hull had not been modified to suit the drive change.

I have also seen another jet P22 once that was again almost certainly a factory built boat and featured the same hull shape as the one in question although it had a CAT 325 in it as opposed to the Yanmar which this one once had.

Im pretty sure that if youve got the money, Halmatic will build exactly what you want from scratch which is why many of their boats are one off's which leads people to think they are conversions!

Looks like a good project to me! Its much improved compared to the MoD boats - GRP engine box, more storage, more fuel capacity etc etc

Pete7 · 08 December 2004, 17:06

Problem with this one is no engine or tubes so how do you know when you buy it that the jet is going to work properly and not turn out to be a dog ? can't say that I was impressed by the last jet P22 I drove. It had as much control as a dodgem car at a fare ground.

Shame because the hull looks in good condition and that trailer won't have been cheap.

Pete

Turbodiesel · 08 December 2004, 20:09

Not sure if it would be a Yanmar, We have a MK1 P22 at work at the min, im just doing the first Yanmar fit (as far as i know!). But i have to do it in kit form so when the Mk1's come in for refit the Yanmar will go in to replace the old Mermaid with ease!!!!

I tested the boat with a Mermaid in it to see how quick it was etc but it only did 28knts with 2 people does that sound about right???

Will let you all know how well it went with the Yanmar in it.

Pete7 · 08 December 2004, 21:29

Thats a very speed for a standard Mermaid. Any chance of some photos of the switch to Yamaha?

Pete

Scary Des · 09 December 2004, 09:00

I went and looked at this boat when it was for a sale at Babcocks in Southampton almost a year ago.

It is a standard Mk1 hull at the front that as had the rear portion changed to maintain the size of the planing foot, this jet is fitted through the hull by cutting a hole for the water intake. The loss of this area has to be made up or the boat will not plan. Hence the change in rear design.

On the boat that Pete7 looked at the intake was rearwards of the transom so no need to change the hull shape.

The engine box on this boat was huge and although it had no engine I got the impression it had had a big lump like a Cat or Sabre, having said that 3500 rpm is high speed for an older style diesel.

Being a 96 boat it has had 6 or 7 years service In the Navy which is not long, most are going for sale after 10 years. Maybe that says something about its abilities or maybe the Navy had learn all they needed to know, bare in mind that the mk2 have jets so this boat cannot have been a complete disaster.

I think it is over priced and wouldn’t pay more than £5K for it, at this price it would make an interesting project. Des

Turbodiesel · 09 December 2004, 09:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete7

Thats a very speed for a standard Mermaid. Any chance of some photos of the switch to Yamaha?

Pete

Not sure if i will be allowed, i will see what the boss says!!!

Also its a YANMAR not yamaha!!!!

Paul F · 09 December 2004, 21:25

Stand corrected,but i would thought it was a trial boat or on an aux ship as near on all MOD boats fitted to warships are moulded in grey(so they dont stick out like a sor thumb for a good target.
Paul

Neville · 11 December 2004, 19:32

General guide : MK 1 - plywood deck. MK 2 GRP deck.

As Seb says there are many variants, but most Jet drives were done on the MK 2. On the MK 2 there have been mermaids fitted, yanmars and more commonly Cummins.

The MK 2 is with the cummins or the yanmar due to a decrease in engine weight. The mk 2 jets handle better than the retro fitted MK1.

Colours made include black , orange the common grey and red - the red ones were made for Endurance at Antartic. They have a stronger hull lay up and a prop guard which fits on a large bracket on to the hull just infront of the leg. They also have a stronger keel, and stainless steel protector strips on the keel and spray rails.

Do remember that these boats were made for a different application to what we use them for ie. fun, and so the jet boats dont handle the way we would like them to!

Seb · 12 December 2004, 08:38

Nev, you say MK2 = GRP deck - when did these start to be manufactured? I know the latest jet MOD boats have a grp deck but theyve also got a completeley new hull design.

Did you mean that the later MKI's had GRP decks too?

By the way, how did the work on my boat go after? Manage to get it off in time?

Have you by any chance got any pictures of the Endurance red boats and info as to what they were used for?

The stainless etc sound like worthwhile fittings.

Cheers

SEB

Neville · 12 December 2004, 20:56

No in general the grp deck started with the MK2. If you look at the boat in the advert the tube fixing is the newer design aswell. This to say, as you pointed out they will make anything if you show them the money.

We are refurbishing a red one at the moment for a customer up towards the north of scotland. When it is finished sometime in january i shall post a pic. Ive only seen 2 red ones before.

Your boat made it up ok to Edinburgh, your mother does not know how lucky she was as the combination of my jeep and the your boat / trailer slid down the road for about 15 metres merrily behind your mums merc - it was then that i realised that the trailer did not have any brakes. We finished the boat with some hard work (not my sweat though!) and i will take some pics of it this week and send them to you. .

Pete7 · 13 December 2004, 07:45

Seb, you mised the weekend with Ian driving up to the Solent. Nice instrument panel you have fitted to Ian's by the way, presume you are going to do your second one the same way.

Joint Services Sailing Centre have a another red one as there harbour tug, did wonder what the history of the red hulls was. Its in very good condition and I was told to keep me eyes off her.

Pete

Seb · 13 December 2004, 08:57

Nev, why didnt you refurb the MK2 boat after rather than selling it 'as is'?

I would have thought that with a decent sized Yanmar in it, you would have been able to demand sensible money for her!

Anyway, would like to see the difference in the red ones, just out of interest and look forward to seeing mine in working order!!

Bet it took a bit of work to get her ready that quickly! How long did the journey back take afterwards? Did you have fun with any hills?

Pete, im officially boatless again now! Neville took my 'project' P22 off me after i realised i couldnt afford to do exactly what i wanted to do it and that i didnt have enough time or adequate facilities - yet another expensive learning curve!!

Cheers about the instrument panel - looks smart doesnt it! I used to work for a sign manufacturers so i managed to get it made up quite resonably. As i said, no boat now so i doubt i will be getting another one made up! Would have it made from a heavier grade engraving laminate if i was to do it again though. The company that i got it from said it was their heavy duty laminate although when i compared it to the original, it was substantially thinner. Too late to complain though!

I was just curious about the red hulls too - nice to have a different colour for a change! Why keep your eyes off her? Not for sale is she?

Cheers

Pete7 · 13 December 2004, 09:05

Seb, sadly she isn't for sale. The sailing club P22 is a red hull but doesn't have any additional stainless steel work under the hull, although thats not to say she didn't have at some time, you know the way people change the original layout on these boats.

So what you getting now ?

Ian is travelling back to Plymouth this morning so should be about Portland now.

Pete

Seb · 13 December 2004, 09:10

Or someone may have just fancied the colour and painted her red

Getting now - no idea! Id like a P22 that is in perfect working order (if such a thing exists!) but sadly, the funding isnt 'up to scratch' at the moment, so i guess ill have to wait a while!

Maybe a 5.4 searider or the likes in the short term - doesnt seem to be much about at the moment though!

Neville · 13 December 2004, 18:50

Seb, the unfinished orange one didnt come from me - I wouldnt sell one unfinished. With a yanmar or a cummins in it and a heavy duty set of tubes he will get very good money for it if he does it the right way. I missed it at Babcocks when it was a couple of thousand, you never know i might buy it but my wife will give me a hard time ! she doesnt have my sense of business humour when it comes to 'speculating to accumulate'! all she is interested in is a new bathroom suite. However, my now deceased grandmother did enjoy her trip on my first P22 a few years ago when she was 95. Didnt ever manage to convince her to buy one off me though!