another newly purchased boat ill equiped rescued

[JSP]

Originally Posted by Polwart

No you need to remove yourself from the gene pool (die or prevent reproduction). http://www.darwinawards.com/rules/

I actually think we're being a bit unfair to the couple involved. MCGA press releases always have an angle - they are never simple factual accounts of the rescue. So couple buy boat, couple begin to take boat home, couple get into difficulties, couple deploy anchor, couple call for help. The negatives are: (1) they broke down - but only after several hours of motoring so, without knowing the details its difficult to point the finger at them (2) they didn't use proper VHF procedure -- ok but that hardly makes them unique. perhaps 'she' was dealing with the CG whilst 'he' (who may be more experienced with the radio) was trying to fix the engine). (3) so they didn't have any flares on boat - for all we know they were supposed to be in the inventory when bought or a bag of stuff accidentally got left in the car at the start of the journey. (4) so the compass wasn't working? did they reasonably expect that the ships compass was true and then discover it wasn't? perhaps the VHF or a mobile phone speaker magnet was causing the problem - the middle of a distress call is probably not the best time to be establishing this - but at least they obviously had enough 'nous' to realise it was wrong. Perhaps their hand bearing compass was in the bag in the car with the flares etc...

I'm sure there are people on here who have at some point made errors of judgement or ploughed on when the wiser man would have returned to home, or forgotten some kit and gone out anyway.

Interestingly when 'one of our own' makes a f**k up we seem to say 'oh well everyones ok, its a great learning experience etc' but when someone else does it 'they are a complete idiot, and people like that should be banned from the water'.

Forget codders for Prime sinister, I vote Polwart for the next PM as the voice of reason

[GBR1]

Originally Posted by Polwart

I'm not convinced the "problem" is really getting any "worse"?

I don't think it is, I just think that with the internet and forum sites, stories like these become public where they did not 10 even 5 years ago!

I think it is still unbelievable that someone can win the lottery and go and buy their 50' SunSeaker and drive off the dock with zero training. I have a friend who lost one of his legs from a motor boat running him over whilst he was becalmed sailing. There was no come back on the owner of the motor boat because he was not qualified and was simply stupid!

So how do you change it, not sure. I think that if you want to take the helm/skipper of a boat over 25 foot (a random number) you should have to have some form of training, if you can afford the boat you can afford to have a days tuition!

One option would be for the RNLI or CG to be able to claim some money back form the boats insurance for the rescue if they believed it was due to negligence of the skipper. In many of these cases it is pretty black and white!!

We will continue to hear these stories because of the lack of any form of stringent laws for boaters. Some will be experienced skippers caught in the wrong place at the wrong time bad fuel etc, most will be idiots that have no clue and risk the lives of themselves and their rescuers!

[Channel Ribs]

Originally Posted by Polwart

Interestingly when 'one of our own' makes a f**k up we seem to say 'oh well everyones ok, its a great learning experience etc' but when someone else does it 'they are a complete idiot, and people like that should be banned from the water'.

The difference being that the person concerned has the made the difference and posted an account on here as a first step to recovery.

If someone uses a support group to admit a problem then they are well on the way to not repeating that problem...

Hi my name is Martin and I am a doofus*

Or so my 7 year old son informs me.

[Channel Ribs]

Originally Posted by GBR1

We will continue to hear these stories because of the lack of any form of stringent laws for boaters.

There is already more than enough legislation in place!

As I have said on this thread and in others, SRC is compulsory for any one using a VHF for routine traffic but I have never heard of a leisure boater being picked up on it.

Once someone has done this simple, legally required, bit of training then by definition they have had access to training organisations like the RYA. If they then chose to pick it up as they go along then good on em, but at least they made the choice.

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by GBR1

I have a friend who lost one of his legs from a motor boat running him over whilst he was becalmed sailing. There was no come back on the owner of the motor boat because he was not qualified and was simply stupid!

Well that is totally wrong - of course you have comeback on someone for driving over your boat and chopping your leg off - what was it a Monty Python sketch!

1 What about collision regulations?
2 What about the damage caused?
3 What about loss of a limb!

I am absolutely certain that you could take that to any court in the country, and if they didn't convict him of something the poor fellow would at least get some compensation - it has nothing at all to do with qualifications!

And if it is the case he was totally uncompensated I think someone should do something about it, and if "we" don't I will!

[spartacus]

Originally Posted by GBR1

I think it is still unbelievable that someone can win the lottery and go and buy their 50' SunSeaker and drive off the dock with zero training. I have a friend who lost one of his legs from a motor boat running him over whilst he was becalmed sailing. There was no come back on the owner of the motor boat because he was not qualified and was simply stupid!

So how do you change it, not sure. I think that if you want to take the helm/skipper of a boat over 25 foot (a random number) you should have to have some form of training, if you can afford the boat you can afford to have a days tuition!

Is it any different if you win the lottery, that you could go out and purchase an Audi R8 and cream it into the motorway central reservation at 155mph... or indeed worse. There are kids out there (figure of speech for anyone under the age of 29) driving a Mitsubishi Evo 8, Subaru Impreza STi, or Audi RS4, (to name but a few) that quite honestly are a danger to themselves and others.

I agree that there should be some sort of compulsory training, rather than 'here are the keys to your Princess and the champagne's on ice for you!'

[spartacus]

Originally Posted by Polwart

No need the RIBnet Court has already found them guilty. Subject to appeal they will be executed at 12 noon tomorrow.

At least they should be allowed a last meal. Anyone want to make the run to KFC? Don't forget the side order of spicy beans.

[Channel Ribs]

Originally Posted by spartacus

I agree that there should be some sort of compulsory training, rather than 'here are the keys to your Princess and the champagne's on ice for you!'

But surely it makes more sense for the insurers to press for said training? Anyone spending squillions on a shiny new bit of tupaware is going to want it insured, so the quesition the broker needs to ask is would you like the £3,000 premium or the one that takes into account the training you have booked.

[chewy]

Originally Posted by spartacus

Is it any different if you win the lottery, that you could go out and purchase an Audi R8 and cream it into the motorway central reservation at 155mph... or indeed worse. There are kids out there (figure of speech for anyone under the age of 29) driving a Mitsubishi Evo 8, Subaru Impreza STi, or Audi RS4, (to name but a few) that quite honestly are a danger to themselves and others.

But you need a license and insurance to drive any of the above.
Whats the difference between hitting the central reservation in a Audi R8 at 155mph or an older car capable of that speed, you've still hit it!

[Erin]

Originally Posted by spartacus

There are kids out there (figure of speech for anyone under the age of 29) driving a Mitsubishi Evo 8, Subaru Impreza STi, or Audi RS4, (to name but a few) that quite honestly are a danger to themselves and others.

The most important difference being the cost of the insurance. Directly related to the power of the car and the age of the driver. If a 20 yr old could insure an R8 for the same money an accident free 40 yr old could insure a fiesta, there'd be a lot more crashed R8's.

The motor industry doesn't necessarily set the best example, but at least it's along the right lines.

[PeterM]

Originally Posted by malthouse

But surely it makes more sense for the insurers to press for said training? Anyone spending squillions on a shiny new bit of tupaware is going to want it insured, so the quesition the broker needs to ask is would you like the £3,000 premium or the one that takes into account the training you have booked.

Even after training people would do daft things & be caugth out by real ' accidents' .

Insurance is not designed to stop stupidity but to help out anyone who has suffered as a result either the insured or third party.

If you used it as a 'rescue tax' people would just not buy it and it would end up like the uninsured car situation- but with worse outcomes.

[spartacus]

Originally Posted by chewy

But you need a license and insurance to drive any of the above.
Whats the difference between hitting the central reservation in a Audi R8 at 155mph or an older car capable of that speed, you've still hit it!

The point I'm trying to make is that there are people purchasing expensive and very powerful cars who don't necessarily have the experience to drive them.

As Erin pointed out the insurance premiums in the motor industry will sort the wheat from the chaff so-to-speak on who can afford to drive performance and luxury vehicles.

From a different angle, how often have you been driving on a snowy dual carriageway only to be overtaken by some nutter doing 70mph in an X5! The stopping distance on ice will probably still be the same, regardless of ASR, ABS and any other electrical trickery onboard.

I still think the couple in question (regards the original thread) made a fundemental error on setting off, and my gut instinct is they knew they were out of their depth probably well before any engine trouble, and before it got dark but carried on regardless in the hope that it would 'pan-out'.

[spartacus]

Originally Posted by Polwart

Interestingly when 'one of our own' makes a f**k up we seem to say 'oh well everyones ok, its a great learning experience etc' but when someone else does it 'they are a complete idiot, and people like that should be banned from the water'.

Agree 100%.

[PeterM]

Originally Posted by spartacus

I still think the couple in question (regards the original thread) made a fundemental error on setting off,

This in most situations is the ONLY decision that needs to be correct. Various training and instruction has made me think about this everytime I even think about doing anything 'adventurous'.

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by GBR1

I have a friend who lost one of his legs from a motor boat running him over whilst he was becalmed sailing. There was no come back on the owner of the motor boat because he was not qualified and was simply stupid!

Come on GBR1 what about something a little bit more than a "mate of mine" is this a Codprawn story or something you heard in the pub or fact, because I think it's a little bit of a "too crazy to believe story"

[Channel Ribs]

Originally Posted by spartacus

Agree 100%.

Poppycock

[GBR1]

Originally Posted by Cookee

Come on GBR1 what about something a little bit more than a "mate of mine" is this a Codprawn story or something you heard in the pub or fact, because I think it's a little bit of a "too crazy to believe story"

Nope, a friend in Brazil, Lars Grael.. Double Olympic medalist!! The link below does not say too much, but he got becalmed sailing (all this happened in Brazil) and then got run over by a power boat while the guy was down below and on autopilot doing 20odd knots. Lars thought he was playing around and was going to move at the last minuet but didn't, Lars at this point tried to get out of the way but it was too late and was run over..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lars_Grael

[chewy]

Originally Posted by spartacus

From a different angle, how often have you been driving on a snowy dual carriageway only to be overtaken by some nutter doing 70mph in an X5! The stopping distance on ice will probably still be the same, regardless of ASR, ABS and any other electrical trickery onboard.

Originally Posted by Bigmuz7

yes you fookers my X5 with its wide boy tyres and immensley powerfull german V8 is pish in the snow

Originally Posted by Bigmuz7

Nein ... ze germans hef der fancy electricary on ze autobarge unt it vill be superior in Tesco car park but notten on ze mud or snow mein herr

Still got to be better than the people who can't drive doing 10mph every where!

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by GBR1

Nope, a friend in Brazil, Lars Grael.. Double Olympic medalist!! The link below does not say too much, but he got becalmed sailing (all this happened in Brazil) and then got run over by a power boat while the guy was down below and on autopilot doing 20odd knots. Lars thought he was playing around and was going to move at the last minuet but didn't, Lars at this point tried to get out of the way but it was too late and was run over..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lars_Grael

Obviously a little thin on facts, but I believe that the first rule in preventing a collision is avoid one regardless of who is in the right! Assuming a guy is "only playing around" isn't really doing that. So no compensation paid and the powerboat skipper walked away scott free? From the facts the powerboat skipper was in the wrong, and this has happened with large commercial vessels as well, so licensing would make no difference to any situation like this, but they still broke collision regulations so there is a fault here.

Earthrace actually ran a boat over in South America as well, it was an unlit fishing boat at night I believe.