Am I insured in an RCD Cat C boat when "at sea"

Poly · 25 March 2011, 23:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vandad

...t it will be a Humber Assault. It is Cat C so you are kind of limited "insurance wise!!".

are we just making stuff up as we go along?

Vandad · 26 March 2011, 00:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polwart

are we just making stuff up as we go along?

ha?!

Humber Assault is Class C (Inshore). So technically you are not supposed to go too far offshore. If you go and be involved in an accident, then your insurance will simply won't even cover you for a penny!

But everybody used Assault for cruising between IoW and Southampton!

But if I am going to suggest something to a member here, I must tell him the truth!

Poly · 26 March 2011, 09:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vandad

ha?!

Humber Assault is Class C (Inshore). So technically you are not supposed to go too far offshore. If you go and be involved in an accident, then your insurance will simply won't even cover you for a penny!

But everybody used Assault for cruising between IoW and Southampton!

But if I am going to suggest something to a member here, I must tell him the truth!

RCD Classes aren't referred to in any insurance policy I've read. Do you have evidence that any insurance claim has not been paid because a boat was being used outside its RCD Design Class?

The RCD Classes make no direct reference to "distance from shore" but rather to sea conditions and wind speeds. "Designed for waves of up to 2m significant height and a typical steady wind force of Beaufort force 6 or less. Such conditions may be encountered on exposed inland waters, and in coastal waters in moderate weather conditions." 2m significant wave ht doesn't even mean a maximum wave size of 2m (roughly 90% will be <2m - but you could reasonably expect an ocassional 4m wave). You can quite feasibly get these conditions 2 miles from the shore or mid channel. In good weather you could expect to cross the Chanel, or the Irish Sea in a Cat C boat. Indeed most insurance policies will provide cover for something like "Coastal Waters of UK & Ireland" as the default 'setting'.

In reality Cat C is much easier (cheaper) to certify so there will be many Cat C boats which could pass Cat B. Search the forum for a few manufacturers opinions of RCD categories.

I'm not suggesting the assault is the ideal boat for taking in serious seas (far from it - it has a fairly ropey reputation for sea keeping (but needs less power to get on the plane so its not all bad!)). However I am suggesting you are not only reading way too much into the RCD Categories but also misleading people that they will not be insured.

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chewy · 26 March 2011, 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vandad

ha?!

Humber Assault is Class C (Inshore). So technically you are not supposed to go too far offshore. If you go and be involved in an accident, then your insurance will simply won't even cover you for a penny!

But everybody used Assault for cruising between IoW and Southampton!

But if I am going to suggest something to a member here, I must tell him the truth!

You can go as far as your insurance covers you.

As for boats if your after something the assault is ok but will never be a great seakeeping boat. You'll get a slightly older destroyer for your budget, you may have to deflate the tubes a bit to get it in your garage though?

PeterM · 26 March 2011, 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vandad

ha?!

Humber Assault is Class C (Inshore). So technically you are not supposed to go too far offshore. If you go and be involved in an accident, then your insurance will simply won't even cover you for a penny!

But everybody used Assault for cruising between IoW and Southampton!

But if I am going to suggest something to a member here, I must tell him the truth!

Hmmmmm - I agree with Polwart ..

the above is total twaddle....

Vandad · 26 March 2011, 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterM

Hmmmmm - I agree with Polwart ..

the above is total twaddle....

Twaddle?! Thanks....

To Polwart: Yes, no insurer will cover you if you cruise on a boat not suitable for a particular sea condition. For your information, even if something happens to one of your crews, the skipper of the boat must be able to prove (to the court) that he has taken all necessary measures to prevent it. The key thing is to prove that the vessel was capable of that particular sea condition!

A class C is not supposed to go far from the shore as it is classed as Inshore.

If you don't believe me, check with your insurer!! simple!

Markyboyo · 27 March 2011, 00:03

So as far as my insurance company is concerned one of humbers 3.1m SIBs with a 10hp outboard is just as challenged/dangerous in any given sea state as a 5.8m destroyer with a 130HP outboard as they have the same rcd rating?

Poly · 27 March 2011, 00:38

Vandad,

Quote:

A class C is not supposed to go far from the shore as it is classed as Inshore.

I refer you to the definition of Design Category C. Do tell me how far I am "supposed" to go in my Cat C vessel...

Quote:

If you don't believe me, check with your insurer!! simple!

I have - I'm insured for use in UK/Irish Coastal Waters.

You might find this thread interesting - it includes a very brief exchange on the subject.
You will probably also find this interesting (the final paragraph almost supports your claim - except this is a single instance of an insurer not putting a boat "on risk" rather than refusing a claim). However even if insurers were to match design categories to coverage ranges - a Cat C vessel would be covered in UK Coastal Waters (which most insurers seem to treat as 12 miles off the coast).

gotchiguy · 27 March 2011, 10:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markyboyo

So as far as my insurance company is concerned one of humbers 3.1m SIBs with a 10hp outboard is just as challenged/dangerous in any given sea state as a 5.8m destroyer with a 130HP outboard as they have the same rcd rating?

The 7m Vipermax with a 250HO is also rcd category C. It's only the big manufacturers that can afford to pay for the certification. B is alot more expensive to obtain than C and due to the fact that it offers very little benefit, most don't bother. Oh and we're insured from the Canaries to the Shetlands

Channel Ribs · 27 March 2011, 10:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polwart

the final paragraph almost supports your claim - except this is a single instance of an insurer not putting a boat "on risk" rather than refusing a claim

The para:

"Update : Autumn 2010 : We are now aware that an insurer has refused to place a Category C craft on risk for offshore use in Norway. This is in spite of the fact that the craft a Grand Banks Trawler, is of a design known to be suitable for offshore passage making. This is the first case to our knowledge where an insurer has restricted use based on the Design Category. Though not yet a policy within the industry as a whole it is likely that this will occur over time."

Perhaps if Vandad has had something similar then the predicted trend is beginning?

willk · 27 March 2011, 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by gotchiguy

The 7m Vipermax with a 250HO is also rcd category C.

Is that why none of them are commercially Coded?

Poly · 27 March 2011, 12:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by willk

Is that why none of them are commercially Coded?

shouldn't really affect coding as RCD is not required for commercial use.

PeterM · 27 March 2011, 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vandad

Twaddle?! Thanks....

If you don't believe me, check with your insurer!! simple!

Thats OK if I see any more twaddle I'll let you know

... I would check with an insurer but as its my job to arrange this sort of cover for commercial clients (local Mercury dealer etc and boat builders etc ) I wont bother ...

So an example - you are out cruiseing and the weather turns bad - in order to get to a safe haven you have no choice but to carry on ..... does your insurance 'become invalid' - no I think not ..... enough said . I'm going boating now....

chewy · 27 March 2011, 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vandad

Twaddle?! Thanks....

To Polwart: Yes, no insurer will cover you if you cruise on a boat not suitable for a particular sea condition. For your information, even if something happens to one of your crews, the skipper of the boat must be able to prove (to the court) that he has taken all necessary measures to prevent it. The key thing is to prove that the vessel was capable of that particular sea condition!

A class C is not supposed to go far from the shore as it is classed as Inshore.

If you don't believe me, check with your insurer!! simple!

So what about boats built before the RCD came into place.
You really are talking bollocks, if your insured to go 20 miles offshore and its flat calm but you have an RCD C craft does that mean your not covered because your not inshore.....

bosun · 29 March 2011, 18:42

A grand banks trawler yacht is only cat c ??
I'm going to check that, it doesn't sound right.
They look like a proper bit of kit.

wavelength · 30 March 2011, 12:22

the choice of category is purely down to the builders how low they put it. The lower the category the less onerous the inspection regime is. RCD is intended purely for the free movement of goods within the EC. Just like toys, electrical equipment, machinery etc etc etc. However no doubt some insurers will latch onto it when they think they can use it to their advantage