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Old 19 March 2005, 09:17   #21
Country: UK - England
Town: mansfield
Length: no boat
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 405
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Personally I just get larger'd in the pub and go home stinking of beer, fags and curry.......stops my thoughts of sex in an instant!
Man after me own hart!!!!!!!!

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Old 19 March 2005, 16:36   #22
Country: UK - Wales
Town: St Davids
Boat name: 6 vessels -various
Make: Quinquari/Humber
Length: 10m +
Engine: Twin ETEC200s
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 130
[QUOTE=codprawn] Bound to cause controversy but here goes....

Codprawn I really appreciate you “guts” in posting your question.

I also talk from real experience on this one.

This pertains to one of my companies that is non marine based.

A long standing family friend was down on his luck when his business failed. I offered him some sub contract/self employed work. He had a major accident that in our view was not within the company business. The HSE gave us a dose of salts but found no cause.

The chap now has a significant civil action against one of my land based companies.

The insurance company will pick up the tab, so what is the issue ?

Well in my mind, albeit an old fashioned sense, then business has to be a bit fair. Indeed the same friend had advised me some years earlier that : when you employ someone then you start working for them and not them for you as you would expect.

Take an example of an employee dropping a beam on top of his employer by pure accident. There is no claim .. it is just an accident. Turn it the other way round then there is the risk of prison/a major fine plus huge compo claims. Now we can peak at 40 or 50 employees. So they can all drop a beam on my head but not me to them … the odds are 50:1 !!

The employer has to stand for everything from financial risk to disability or other discrimination. The employee can do as he likes and provided it is not criminal stands no risk.

I would really like to help my friend but cannot for fear of being accused of intimidation in court. He may well walk away with a lot of money but will have lost in my view moral values and friendship.

The case of the Barmouth lads is very sad but unfortunately part of the risks of sea work. I really hope that I don’t offend the lads and their families here but at the end of the day they were offered some work and I guess deemed to be qualified. The issue will be whether they were told to go to sea in said boat at said time or if it was their decision as to the method and time.

In time of grief someone “must” be held responsible. Alas we cannot sue “God” so it is understandable when those with such loss must look for a conclusion by looking to the tiers of delegation in terms of accountability.

I am split as to whether it is right to air such views on a forum or not. I guess I go for airing views as we all feel so much for the families of tragic losses but at the same time believe in the old fashioned sense of life and responsibilities.

Again I stress my not wishing to offend the damned good lads of Barmouth.. they went to sea like the rest of us.


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Old 19 March 2005, 19:35   #23
Country: UK - Wales
Town: swansea
Boat name: Too Blue
Length: 8m +
Engine: Suzuki DT225
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,791
Well said John.

Twenty years ago discussions like this in the UK were just not needed. It is a shame that these days people have to do much soul searching before daring to speak out.
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Old 20 March 2005, 04:17   #24
Country: France
Town: Brittany
Length: no boat
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 119
Originally Posted by Scott2
cant. crew/parents if under 18 sign a form that say if anything happens the RNLI is not to be held responsible or to be sued.
Is that the same sort of 'Legally Binding' contract, that females signed when they joined the Services, saying they would resign if they became pregnant ?
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Old 20 March 2005, 12:28   #25
Country: UK - England
Town: London
Make: Larson
Length: 7m +
Engine: Volvo D4 260hp DP
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 275
From reports it stated that neither men had lifejackets on, they may have removed them before trying to recover the anchor or somehow lost them. I can't imagine a well fitted lifejacket with a crutch strap coming off, so I guess it remains a mystery. Perhaps people will realise how important it is to always wear the correct safety gear, perhaps if they had been wearing a dry suite and lifejacket, and carrying an epirb, (I don't know if they were) it may have been a different story. I guess when you are doing the same thing day in day out you could sometimes take a chance, a lesson to us all I reckon.

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