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Old 12 August 2014, 00:21   #1
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AB Lammina models= Paper Thin Fabric?!

Just wanted to put on record and as well as ask if this is normal, but a used AB Lammina 10Al I bought seems to have a paper thin fabric.

I've had 310 BoatUS rib, and other PVC boats(Saturn, Mercury sibs) and those fabrics are at least 1.5 times thicker IMO than this fabric. I knew it had leaks in all chambers, but though it was a quick fix (and only paying $450 for it seemed like a good deal). Now, I noticed that the leaks were coming just from surface scratches where the white reinforcement fabric is showing!
I'm thinking, "What?". Shouldn't it have another layer of rubber underneath it?! Well, apparently not.

When the tube is inflated, it feels a medicine ball. I don't think I can have a lot of more confidence in this fabric than I do in those vinyl "inflatable boat mattresses" that sell for $150. It is not ok when a surface scratch on inflatable is a cause for concern. And these shallow surface nicks and scratches can apparently cause leaks.

So, my guess is either all of the 10ft and small AB Lammina models are made with that type of fabric or this particular batch of Lammina got cheated and the second layer was not glued on. It does not look like it was retubed.

I'm going to patch and reinforce those spots, but seriously not happy with the durability of these tubes. I only paid few hundred for it, so perhaps retubing it myself with some decent set of tubes from some SIB may be an option. I feel like I overpaid now, given that it has no title and I would have to come up with MCO.

Anyone's experience with this line of AB Lammina ribs or AB ribs in general and CSM materieal will be appreciated.


This is the exact model I'm talking about:
Lammina 10 AL

It's got a good open hull design and high bow, which so far is the only bright spot of this purchase.
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Old 12 August 2014, 05:24   #2
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Sorry no knowledge of the your tubes, but this may help.

SealSkin Sealant Inflatable Boat Repair Kit RIB Dinghy Puncture Tube Flexible | eBay

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Old 12 August 2014, 11:10   #3
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Dunno. I've got a friend with a smallish AB RIB; he's pretty happy with it.

Is it hypalon tubed? Hypalon is generally the top layer, followed by a nylon or polyester fabric reinforcement, with a neoprene inner layer to make it airtight. All that is done at the time the fabric is manufactured; it's not something done at the boat shop.

For PVC, I think the plastic is simply molded around the reinforcing fabric. Again, not something the boat builder would do.

jky

Just looked at the site; the Orca logo at the bottom would imply that it's hypalon.
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Old 12 August 2014, 15:41   #4
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They're an 1100 denier Orca hypalon material.

The UL series are a little lighter material..800d or 900d or so.

Patch it with some hypalon patches and you'll be good to go?
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Old 12 August 2014, 17:22   #5
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Originally Posted by office888 View Post
They're an 1100 denier Orca hypalon material.

The UL series are a little lighter material..800d or 900d or so.

Patch it with some hypalon patches and you'll be good to go?
They are not.
I did some investigating and called in AB to their support team. AB Lammina and really all models of AB 10ft and smaller have Orca 215 CSM. 11 to 16ft have Orca 820.

Orca 215 CSM is either 7-7.5mm, which is about consistent with how those tubes felt-very thin. Orca 820 is about 9mm. Most PVC boats are 90mm or 110mm. My BoatUS 310 rib must be Orca 820.

Given that Lammina 10Al is 10.5ft long, I think it is very poor quality and corner/cost-cutting for AB to be using 215 fabric on it.

The representative from AB told me than any hypalon/CSM is better than PVC, and that is a sack of garbage. When a fabric is so thick it is unreliable, I would go for a shorter lasting thicker fabric.
----------------------------------------------


My only solution would be to put large PVC patches over high-risk areas and reinforce any existing rips. I don't see a need to use CSM on CSM because it's expensive and patches are expandable and could be replaced after 2-3 years if necessary. Will use either 5200 or Stabond for bonding.

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Originally Posted by bartiny View Post
Sorry no knowledge of the your tubes, but this may help.

SealSkin Sealant Inflatable Boat Repair Kit RIB Dinghy Puncture Tube Flexible | eBay

That's some sketchy product. I cannot see that lasting very long. Sounds like a nice idea, but probably very impractical.
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Old 13 August 2014, 03:18   #6
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Originally Posted by RogueRider View Post
Orca 820 is about 9mm. Most PVC boats are 90mm or 110mm.
The USA might still be a superpower if you'd only learned the metric system!

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My only solution would be to put large PVC patches over high-risk areas and reinforce any existing rips. I don't see a need to use CSM on CSM
sounds like you've already made up your mind, so not sure what help you were looking for, but usually forums work better if you come with a question and an open mind rather than a rant.
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Old 13 August 2014, 11:32   #7
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The USA might still be a superpower if you'd only learned the metric system!
It's just really thick fabric.


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sounds like you've already made up your mind, so not sure what help you were looking for, but usually forums work better if you come with a question and an open mind rather than a rant.
Agreed.

5200 is not the stuff to use for patches unless you are never going to repair it again.

Gluing PVC patches onto hypalon will work if you use the correct procedure, but putting hypalon on hypalon is pretty straightforward, and would (assuming proper assembly) be pretty much a permanent fix, at least for the affected areas.

Just my opinion;

jky
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Old 13 August 2014, 13:57   #8
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The USA might still be a superpower if you'd only learned the metric system!
Pal, I use cm instead of meters most of the time and so called 400 rib vs 4m rib is very common to me, so I had a slip and typo of 90mm, when I obviously meant 0.9mm.


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sounds like you've already made up your mind, so not sure what help you were looking for, but usually forums work better if you come with a question and an open mind rather than a rant.

Reason I made up my mind is because I found out information myself and have researched plenty other forums for repair solutions. Nobody who viewed the thread had this model, so I had to do searching on my own. Now if someone like me is bewildered by thinness of these Lammina models, they can look up this thread.
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Old 13 August 2014, 14:03   #9
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Agreed.

5200 is not the stuff to use for patches unless you are never going to repair it again.

Gluing PVC patches onto hypalon will work if you use the correct procedure, but putting hypalon on hypalon is pretty straightforward, and would (assuming proper assembly) be pretty much a permanent fix, at least for the affected areas.

Just my opinion;

jky
I need to put sizable patches in all vulnerable areas, so hypalon is just not cost effective. I already have a nice cut up Baltik inflatable that just so happens to have the same color as this AB fabric. I don't know why you think 5200 won't come off when I have no problem getting it off PVC or hypalon. Did you use it on inflatable fabric before and couldn't get it off. I am definitely leaning to Stabond for cure time, because I have at least 4 big patches to put on and want to at least hit the water in 2 weeks.
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