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Old 02 January 2009, 12:10   #11
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I think its been on here before , but I think this applies to commercial sales not - private to private once a 'craft' has aready been entered into service.

Lawful use - ie not drug running / murder / theft . Lawful manner - not speeding etc - the key would be the defination of use/manner under the policy.

Still think youd be fine with a bigger engine as long as you told them.

Which type of law - any lawyers care to clarify ?
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Old 02 January 2009, 12:42   #12
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I think its been on here before , but I think this applies to commercial sales not - private to private once a 'craft' has aready been entered into service.

Lawful use - ie not drug running / murder / theft . Lawful manner - not speeding etc - the key would be the defination of use/manner under the policy.

Still think youd be fine with a bigger engine as long as you told them.

Which type of law - any lawyers care to clarify ?
I fully agree - look at all the modded cars and bikes around. I had no problem insuring a Rangie that had all sorts of changes including a 4.6 engine.

A mate of mine had a drag car he used on the road - a Ford Mercury pickup with a V8 chevy putting out 800hp - fitted with nitrous and all sorts of goodies!!!
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Old 02 January 2009, 13:33   #13
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Lots of useful info there guys. So providing you either get the manufacturers to up the engine rating on your vessel or get the insurance company to accept there is an overpowered/overweight engine stuck on the transom you run the risk of having your ass sued or not being covered by having no insurance.

But if you build you're own or carry out substantial mods to an exsisting brand, any manufacturer will tell you to do a running jump when you've told them what you've done so would become a custom build. Would the insurance company also tell you to do a running jump too, or would they just insist you're boat is CE complient?

And in the case of no insurance and in a court of law I guess evidence would be taken from the MAIB report?
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Old 02 January 2009, 14:53   #14
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I fully agree - look at all the modded cars and bikes around. I had no problem insuring a Rangie that had all sorts of changes including a 4.6 engine.

A mate of mine had a drag car he used on the road - a Ford Mercury pickup with a V8 chevy putting out 800hp - fitted with nitrous and all sorts of goodies!!!
And a kid up my road has a pogo stick with an uprated spring, but wtf has that got to do with this thread?
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Old 02 January 2009, 15:01   #15
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And in the case of no insurance and in a court of law I guess evidence would be taken from the MAIB report?
Maib reports contain opinion not evidence.

I would be most concerned about a police prosecution for manslaughter in which case, can I comment that you seem to be coming at this from the wrong standpoint - this seems to be "how can I legally 'get away with' running an overpowered boat" rather than "how can I add appropriate power, with any necessary engineering, stability etc improvements to make it safe and avoid the accident".
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Old 02 January 2009, 15:13   #16
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And a kid up my road has a pogo stick with an uprated spring, but wtf has that got to do with this thread?
It is about insurance companies views - the car market is a good example - modified pogo sticks aren't!!!
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Old 02 January 2009, 15:39   #17
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Taken from the RYA website!!!!

"Virtually all recreational craft built since 16 June 1998 and intended for sport and leisure use, may only be placed on the EEA market or put into service within the EEA if they meet the essential safety requirements set out in the Recreational Craft Directive 2003/44/EC.

These regulations apply to all recreational craft between 2.5 and 24 metres in hull length whatever the means of propulsion. They may be fully built or partly completed; constructed within, or imported from without the EEA. The builder, importer or owner, or the person putting the craft into EEA service, (the responsible person) has a legal obligation to ensure that the craft meets the relevant requirements and to carry out the appropriate CE marking".

All work done to existing craft, from changing a switch, to re-engining has to conform, whether the work is done by the owner, your next door neighbour, or a professional. I don't reckon anyone build a boat/rib etc that totally conforms, mainly due to minor infringements, but I reckon overpowering a craft would be pretty high on the list, in the event of a claim!
...mmm the directive itself uses the phrase "on the market and put into service" rather than OR. Also the directive explicitly states:
Quote:
Whereas this Directive does not contain any provisions directed towards limiting the use of the recreational craft after it has been put into service;
From the RYA's guidance manual:
Quote:
Putting into service
Put into service means the first use by the end user but does not include boats temporarily put into service for
reasons of tourism or transit.
Placing on the market
Placing on the market means the first making available against payment or free of charge.
so I still think ongoing compliance is not mandated.
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Old 02 January 2009, 16:41   #18
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If you kill someone through sheer laziness then I guess you will still be prosecuted if you have insurance or not ( like cars).

Its always a subjective view if any mod/ engine / HP contributed to a claim ( seems we are all mostly talking about liability cover)will increase risk.

Heres one - what about underpowered boats that could be considered dangerous ??? No one dictates you must have at least Xhp Auxillary, or that in you SIB you canonly go 1/2 mile offshore as you only have 3.hp - you'd still be insured.

You also need to consider that insurance companies are run by pencil pushers not boaters. Does your insurance company ever ask if you have a 2st or 4st ? Nope - they rate forst on value then location. Liability claims are rare and usually insurnace companies cant avoid paying the really big ones . I'd have to check up , but I dont hink they have the same legal liability as under the road traffic act.

Again - just tell them & let them decide. They cannot decline a claim if they issue cover & are in full possesion of all material facts (thats anything that might 'reasonably' be expected to be disclosed that could affect the risk they are covering - ie avoid them being selected against by way of certainty. Remember insurance covers unexpected events)
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Old 03 January 2009, 11:23   #19
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It is about insurance companies views - the car market is a good example - modified pogo sticks aren't!!!
Ok, how about this as an example. My mates stepson crashes his Impreza through a garden wall in Bournemouth a couple of years ago, no alcohol or speeding involved, just a pure accident, he writes the car off, but the insurance company refuse the claim as he neglected to tell them that he fitted different wheels/tyres.

18 months later he's still fighting with them, and still paying the finance on the motor!
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Old 03 January 2009, 13:03   #20
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That's the whole point - as long as you let the insurance company know you should be ok!!!
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