40hp too small? - Page 2

idsebby · 19 July 2016, 21:40

I didn't see any leaking just there was water in the oil. Ya know looked like grey milk.

Xk59D · 19 July 2016, 21:53

that could simply be moisture due to lack of oil change for x years or it could be leaking.

to do a pressure test buy a gearbox oil kit, it will come with a screw hose which you can attach a pump to somehow and put some pressure on it. i must admit i do not know what that pressure should be so someone else will need to answer that one.

as for your makeshift shaft test with a screwdriver, certainly a good start! that only proves not massively out though, we are looking for very small differences here. (i think 0.03 inch is the max recommended for mercury, i don't know about suzuki but i would imagine they are all similar as it is a spinning part after all)...check this out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFbxjZtfT-M

another one- (this guy heats up the shaft but need to be careful as that alone could kill the seals, TBH i wouldn't put heat on it as you couldn't get it hot enough to make any difference and keep the seals good, although i have never done this so happy to be wrong?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6sPuVnjTh8

And the leak test, you should also ideally pull a vacum too.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=KPlJ4WQKwCE

beamishken · 19 July 2016, 22:51

I ran a yamaha 85 for about 5 years with a bent shaft you could clearly see the shaft going up and down when you spun the prop it never ailed a thing and never let water in the boat used to get used 2 or 3 times a week too
Was still bent when I sold the boat and the new owner used it for several more seasons too
Personally I'd change the oil use it and make sure no other issues,the oil needs to be severely contaminated to start doing damage
Have a few trips with it and check again see if it does have water in again if it does get it sorted worst thing for a box that's had water in is to drain it and not refill it. The moisture needs oxygen to start corrosion
If it's going to stand for any long period change the oil and refill with clean oil untill you can get it fixed even engine oil is better than no oil whilst laid up awaiting repair

Xk59D · 19 July 2016, 23:05

Last week it was cutting transoms and now advocating running with a clearly bent prop shaft...cmon now.

Note to self...never buy anything from beam

idsebby · 19 July 2016, 23:24

Yeah I figure start with the cheapest solution first. That would be changing the gear oil. After that I will see where I stand with the seals. I don't mind changing the seals when I do the impeller but I want to see if the motor is worth putting money into before I do. No use putting a new gearbox in the water only to have the power head blow up. Always a gamble with outboards. Salt water is amazingly destructive I am learning.

idsebby · 19 July 2016, 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by beamishken

I ran a yamaha 85 for about 5 years with a bent shaft you could clearly see the shaft going up and down when you spun the prop it never ailed a thing and never let water in the boat used to get used 2 or 3 times a week too
Was still bent when I sold the boat and the new owner used it for several more seasons too
Personally I'd change the oil use it and make sure no other issues,the oil needs to be severely contaminated to start doing damage
Have a few trips with it and check again see if it does have water in again if it does get it sorted worst thing for a box that's had water in is to drain it and not refill it. The moisture needs oxygen to start corrosion
If it's going to stand for any long period change the oil and refill with clean oil untill you can get it fixed even engine oil is better than no oil whilst laid up awaiting repair

Did you at least tell the guy it was bent?

beamishken · 19 July 2016, 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by idsebby

Did you at least tell the guy it was bent?

Yes I did, he knew the boat and used to ski with us and bought the boat when I traded up he knew it wasn't an issue as it had been like it for years

idsebby · 19 July 2016, 23:33

That's what I figure haha amazing that the gear box did not tear it's self apart. Was the prop just perfectly missing a chunk that it balanced out ha ha .

Poly · 19 July 2016, 23:35

When you change the oil you *should* replace the small seals on the filler plugs. If you don't you still won't know if the leak is a small or bigger repair.

You'll find videos on YouTube of pressure testing the gearbox. It should be easy enough to tell if it's a big leak or a slow one.

beamishken · 19 July 2016, 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xk59D

Last week it was cutting transoms and now advocating running with a clearly bent prop shaft...cmon now.

Note to self...never buy anything from beam

Far too many people on here have a "can't do that" attitude when actually you can often do just that!
Not everyone has the money or time to get exactly the right thing but often there is a simple answer there that costs very little
The op here can refill his gearbox for less than a tenner and enjoy the remainder of the season when everyone's sat there saying no you can't do that! It's maybe not ideal but it gets him out boating
Your own post says mercs max recommended runout is 30thou you would clearly see 30thou

9D280 · 20 July 2016, 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonp

Two 40's would give around the same performance as one 60 hp. Personaly I would be looking at a single 70 and sell the other two.

Jon

Aye, summit like that if yer running twin 300s. At the smaller end of the scale those proportions are a lot less...... Just search for my user ID & "twins" - I can't be bothered re- typing it all....

Quote:

Originally Posted by beamishken

Far too many people on here have a "can't do that" attitude when actually you can often do just that!
Not everyone has the money or time to get exactly the right thing but often there is a simple answer there that costs very little
The op here can refill his gearbox for less than a tenner and enjoy the remainder of the season when everyone's sat there saying no you can't do that! It's maybe not ideal but it gets him out boating
Your own post says mercs max recommended runout is 30thou you would clearly see 30thou

I reckon I'm somewhere In the middle on this one - is a 5 boat with a 40 any worse than the 4m boat with a 25 I ran for a good few years? doubt it. Flip side a bent prop shaft in my engineering head = short time to gearbox failure. = in my head bad thing...

For every rib owner there will be a cost- affordability- risk balance to be had. Opinions on this forum? - Some I envy their budget. Some I wouldn't touch with a proverbial barge pole. Somewhere In the middle is my perfect boat. Add to that my "perfect" boat now works in a whole different set of constraints to the boat I ran 8 years ago..... Somewhere in the future is my "future perfect" rig.

The OP has a budget. Most of us have probably been there, whether it be last week or 30 years ago. Only the OP has their definition of "performance" and whether that is actually that important or not. Fippin' 'eck - I ran for 4 years happy with a 21 knot Vmax....... I now have a boat capable of 30+.... but I still cruise at around 20., coz guess what? - it's the most fuel efficient speed and ambient engine noise preference for my boat!

Last Tango · 20 July 2016, 06:37

So your evidence of a leak is "the oil was a bit milky".
This is a matter of proportion.
I have changed gearbox oil, in total over hundred times, in at least twenty different engines and I've never found one that didn't show some evidence of water in the oil. It's just something that happens (The Seloc Mercruiser manual actually tells you how much water in the bottom of the drive is acceptable) and quality OB gear oil is formulated to perform with some water contamination.

Unless there is a visual or obvious sign of an oil leak I'd just give it a flush, put new oil in it and try it.

Keep checking it every time you bring it home until your confident it's ok.

It's a different kettle of fish for a boat that's left on a mooring but I think you could be getting your knickers in a twist about nothing

beamishken · 20 July 2016, 07:09

The point is the op has now bought an ancient 85hp suzuki that's laid idle for 2 years which has a little water in the box
His best option is get it out on the water and try it!
As soon as he mentioned it had a gearbox issue people start jumping in "get it sorted" "new seals", "clock gauge on the shaft","gearbox will destroy itself" etc
When actually he needs to get it out on the water to try it out before he spends a penny more.

As for running with a bent shaft it's all relative & depends where it's bent if it's bent inside the box then it will damage internals . If it's bent at the root of the splines (a common place) then if no significant vibration it will be fine.
Someone qouted 30thou run-out as being acceptable by merc which even with the ops static screwdriver test would be easily visible

Xk59D · 20 July 2016, 11:10

The runout is 3 thou max, not 30, sorry for missing a zero. However, more googling would confirm suzuki I am sure.

The human eye struggles with less than 5 thou, well, mine does!

I guess your idea of mechanical safety (for lack of better term) and mine are poles apart, that much is evident if nothing else. This is not about money, borrow a dial gauge and call it good. Cost free and peace of mind priceless.

However as the oil situation is becoming more clear from OP I would be more hopeful of everything being okay but I would still check runout personally.

idsebby · 20 July 2016, 18:30

Honestly I will get it checked out once I figure it's leaking. I just need to get it fitted and running on the water.I have always tended to do things in the less conventional way. Drove my first car 66 mustang with no windshield for 60 miles on the I-5 freeway wearing a motorcycle helmet. Now some would never do this but I lived an hour from the windscreen place and didn't have the cash for the call out. It's crazy and unconventional but I was safe about it. That's where I tend to wanna be. I don't mind the weird looks but I do mind being adrift.

Xk59D · 20 July 2016, 19:36

being adrift is probably not the best no, do what has been suggested, great chance it is okay and get on water.

idsebby · 20 July 2016, 21:47

Yeah I will do all the above in order of price from high to low . But it is an interesting topic.
How to be cheap and safe?

Xk59D · 20 July 2016, 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by idsebby

How to be cheap and safe?

Don't buy a boat for starters!

idsebby · 22 July 2016, 10:14

Hahaha ya think I would have learned that lesson when I bought my first sail boat off eBay.

idsebby · 06 August 2016, 11:45

Ok so I checked the oil for the first time with out running it after it had been sitting for a week. The oil looks like this. I have read that some oils look like this. No water came out of the bottom drain hole just oil. I think this might be normal? Reason I have not replaced it yet is because the mechanics was waiting on the seals. Suzuki dealer took the week off.