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Old 23 February 2004, 16:13   #1
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11mtr major problems


Hi from rmh. I need help and advise with the following?
I purchased an 11mtr rib and inside the first 5 days of operation came up with the attached list:
1.Fuel filler lids unable to open.
2.Water leaking into enclosed bow area (severe)
3.Water leaking into internal passenger area.
4.Water leaking into watertight engine room.
5.Bilge pump inoperative.
6.Leaks through cabin windows.
7.Leak through windscreen.
8.Wiper fell off.

I can go on and on but I will only bore you all. To follow up I discovered major cracks in the decking. Various design flaws. Major mechanical faults causing breakdowns at sea. Electronic failures etc, etc, etc.

This rib is still only a few months old and I am devastated, horrified by the lack of basic quality. I invested a fortune in it and now comes the cruncher. I have been told by the rib manufacturer that I have unreasonable expectations and that our business relationship must end here!
Has anyone ever experienced such a traumatic situation in the rib world. Can anyone help with advice or suggestion as to where I go from here? I realise you are all now saying how stupid I was to allow this situation to develope but in my defence I stupidly believed their promises and endeavoured to work along with them believing they cared!
Incidently are there any journalists or marine / consumer magazines out there interested in the full sad story? I would'nt want this to happen to anyone else, so please dont hesitate to contact me for more info.

HELP!
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Old 23 February 2004, 16:23   #2
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Hi RMH

sorry to hear about your problems , but go on' name' the the company other wise we can't avoid them,

Funny how before a cheque is written any thing is possible or can be delivered, nothing is too much trouble

once cashed the opposite seems to familiar
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Old 23 February 2004, 16:28   #3
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Re: 11mtr major problems

Quote:
Originally posted by RMH



This rib is still only a few months old

HELP!
Do we assume that you are the original owner supplied from new or purchased privately as a few months old model ?
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Old 23 February 2004, 16:36   #4
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Is your boat the big grey Redbay?
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Old 23 February 2004, 17:36   #5
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RMH

Why exactly are you coming here with your problems? This is a genuine question -- what do you expect to achieve?

What actions have you taken so far? Have you listed the items that you are not happy with, and given the manufacturer the opportunity to remedy them? What has lead the manufacturer to decide that you have "unreasonable expectations"?

Have you consulted a solicitor? If so, what did he say? If not, why not?

Frankly the fact that you are posting here and offering "the full sad story", rather than pursuing a more conventional course of action through the courts sets all my alarm bells ringing.

John
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Old 23 February 2004, 18:13   #6
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RMH

I have to say I completely agree with JK.

If I was in your position I would be screaming down the phone at my solicitor instructing him to do whatever is necessary to ensure the situation is resolved as it should be.

I can't see how a manufacturer of any equipment, let alone something to the value of an 11 metre RIB, could wash his hands of this.

Consumer law in this country should protect you so go to trading standards too. They should help.

Good Luck. ( even though you shouldn't need it!)

Phil
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Old 23 February 2004, 18:56   #7
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Re: 11mtr major problems

Quote:
Originally posted by RMH

Hi from rmh. I need help and advise with the following?

HELP!
JK - Now I am not a rocket scientist , but I would think he is after some help and advice ?

Is that not a feesable thing to request on an open forum ?

Whilst I appreciate your position and concern about starting off a public slagging off thread, of a particular company , I think your reply " Why exactly are you coming here with your problems ? " is somewhat sharp !

When I recently posted about outboard engine problems , I dont recall being told to go find an engineer and not to post my problems here ?

I think this chap ( who I know nothing about his boat or him, its not Flanker again is it ? ) should be allowed our advice as to what course of action we would take , but I agree that it should be made clear that this forum will not be allowed to be used to maliciously slag off a company , when its only you who could get it in the neck.

To his credit he hasnt mentioned any manufacturer. On the flip side if there are rogue manufacturers out there surely we should have a right to hear about them.

Now my advice to him would be to would be to take advantage of his local CAB ( Citizens Adv ) to start with, who will advice him concerning his rights under the sale of goods act , etc & perhaps direct him to trading standards also.

If discusions have truly broken down then I think he should consider an independent survey to back up his complaints , armed with a supporting survey return to the builder for them to reconsider , still no joy then its down the solicitor / bad publicity route

How long am I now banned for LOL
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Old 23 February 2004, 21:20   #8
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You need to contact a marine surveyor, one that specialises in small craft and have an erudite opinion on the cause of your problems.

From then on in it's a matter of pursuing the relevant trading standards law via your solicitor.
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Old 24 February 2004, 02:39   #9
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Re: Re: 11mtr major problems

Quote:
Originally posted by matiboy
JK - Now I am not a rocket scientist , but I would think he is after some help and advice ?

Is that not a feesable thing to request on an open forum ?

Whilst I appreciate your position and concern about starting off a public slagging off thread, of a particular company , I think your reply " Why exactly are you coming here with your problems ? " is somewhat sharp !
I'm not saying that he shouldn't ask for help on the forums, and I'm not for a moment suggesting that people shouldn't help. I am concerned that this appears to be his first line of attack though, and I am genuinely interested in knowing what he hopes to achieve.

I haven't suggested that he goes away, but I have asked some questions which may make the situation clearer and enable people to help further. A considered approach is likely to be more successful that ranting, hence my tone

John
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Old 24 February 2004, 05:40   #10
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11 metre rib

are you not covered by the warranty then, i agree with john get on the phone to your solicitor, you must have made the builder pretty mad if he wants nothing more to do with you
tim
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Old 24 February 2004, 07:55   #11
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Re: Re: Re: 11mtr major problems

Quote:
Originally posted by John Kennett
and enable peoiple to help further
All peoiple should understand that Mr. Kennett may still be suffering from concussion.

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Old 24 February 2004, 08:41   #12
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That as may be, but peoiple should still be as heilpful as posseioble!

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Old 24 February 2004, 09:02   #13
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RMH form HOLLYWOOD (UK) I believe that you should exactly what JK tells you. Although he may be suffering from concussion as DM says he still got a spark 'up there'

Ask a marine lawyer (solicitor) to advise you on the steps so you are completely cover i.e. independant surveyor appointment procedure etc Your insurance should cover you anyway for this short of thing and they can take up the legal battle. That I think it may expenssive.

Have you made contact with RIB INTERNATIONAL http://www.ribmagazine.com/index.htm click on the link and you can find contact details there.

I wonder who is this company that sold you the RIB

Good luck you will need it.
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Old 24 February 2004, 09:39   #14
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my thoughts

Having read this i have to say something does not seem right here.
As with John alarm bells are ringing.

Any company worthits salt would not behave in this manor unless there were underlying reasons.

For someone who builds 11m ribs business is done on word of mouth and reputaion.
To behave like this without underlying reasons would be commercial suicide IMHO.
If this were the true and full facts you would have very strong legal case IMHO

I have to say and I may have it wrong but don't think we are seeing the full facts.

Just my thoughts.
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Old 24 February 2004, 10:53   #15
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11mtr problem



The company involved has reneged on the warranty in that they have stated "we feel that our business relationship must end here"
Let me assure you this is not my first line of attack. I am a genuine ribster who wishes to seek genuine suggestions and advice.I have contacted all the relevant legal people but however did not think to add that to this forum as you rightly pointed out.I have no intentions of starting a slagging match. I have purposely not mentioned the company involved, however when legally permitted I will, with your permission name and shame. This will be purely for the benifit of other ribsters ( bear in mind i've already been caught) my aim is to ensure that others are not.
I would like to thank all interested parties who have taken the trouble to contact me and offer me seriuosly good help and advice, is this not what the forum is about? Some of my replies have resulted already in information from other owners relating to the same company with similar problems, surely that proves the success and importance of your forum. Your question " Why are you coming here with your problems" I feel I have already explained, but did it need asking? Believe me as mentioned in many replies, the company's statement " There can be no more meeting of minds" etc etc is entirely true although unbelievable!
Mr Kennett your question " What do I expect to achieve" I would have thought was obvious. You have an excellent forum which thankfully is in place to help not alone myself but all ribsters. My intentions are to hear from possibly others who may be in the same position I find myself and to relay some or all of the difficulties I have had to endure and to attempt to ensure others may be assisted by my mistakes.
In answer to your other questions. I continually supplied lists of faults and design problems from day one. After a period of at least three months the company had failed to remedy all. Regarding my unreasonable expections "yes" they are high. As a ribster who travels great distances, safety is my number 1 priority. What would your feelings be in leaving your new boat with a company to have many, many faults rectified and on collection discover the same and more faults, some generated by the company.
I would now like to attempt to silence your " alarm bells" I have explained my reasons for posting , It is a full sad story, and I am pursuing all normal channels. I sincerely hope I may be allowed to continue to post on your forum and keep all ribsters abreast of all future developments. I hope this reply is publicised for all to read.

Thank you for your interest
rmh
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Old 24 February 2004, 11:48   #16
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I can see that there is a diference of opinion here between the boatbuilder and yourself.
Normally I would agree with previous posters here, that you a)get a proper, professional survey done and a written report produced and b) you then get your legal eagle to send it to the boatbuilder with request for rectification followed by c) a resurvey to check.
However, reading between the lines, I feel that there might be a clash of personalities here as well?
If this is so, how about professional arbitration?
The boatbuilder MAY think you are being to "picky" and you MAY think the b/b is doing shoddy work. After all you must have paid a very tidy sum to buy such a boat, why not go that extra mile and submit to independant arbitration?
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Old 24 February 2004, 14:50   #17
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IMHO

RMH,

Following on from Brian's advice, I would add the following:-

Seek proper legal representation, look at the contract in detail assuming you had one drawn up!

Eventually if this cannot be resolved through arbitration then a civil action will be need to be taken out and served on the Boatbuilder, this may sevre you in several ways.

1. To encourage the B/b to recify the faults/work to a satisfactory standard; may need an independant survey.

2. You instruct another boatbuilder to rectify the faults/work then try and recover the costs through the courts; assuing you can afford to do this.

3. You could sue the boatbuilder for breach of contract or under the sale of goods act. Talk to your Local Trading Standards Office (FREE).

In either event this is really a job for the legal proffession, I wish you well what ever the outcome.

Please keep the forum posted as I would not wish that to happen to anyone; there must be lessons to be learnt. Nor let the boatbuilder sherk their respsonsabilities as a proffessional business.

Regards
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Old 25 February 2004, 03:45   #18
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Just a small point Regarding the independent survey

The surveyor that will undertake this survey should be a qualified marine surveyor and should be mutually agreed by both parties (otherwise is not independent) and that his findings should be final and bind both parties. You must agree this before you proceed any further.

Also the costs of this survey should be bared by the party that is found at fault or split 50/50 or what ever you agree any way.

The bottom line is that you need a MARINE SOLICITOR to advise you on all those actions that you should take.

I am still wondering though, isn't the boat insured?
If you are using it commercially it must be insured (it should have been insured also even if it wasn't used commercially).
Can't you involve your insurance on this?
I would have thought that this, probably, would be the most appropriate action to take instead of try to fight it on your own.
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Old 25 February 2004, 03:51   #19
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I will inspect and report on the boat and equipment FOC.
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Old 25 February 2004, 04:25   #20
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Looks like

the AP route is the way to go , he should know his onions !
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