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Old 29 October 2015, 20:51   #71
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Originally Posted by dubrus View Post
Jepho,

Before you commit to the leeway it is only fair you buy in the knowledge of what they are.

If you search leeway on the forum you will find a lot of info.

I don't have any axe to grind myself as I've never seen one, but given you are new you should know the history and make your own mind up as resale may be affected.
Thank you kindly dubrus. (the Apple speelchucker keeps changing your name to debris) It was very considerate of you to mention the Leeway history.
As written elsewhere, I have taken the opportunity to read a lot about Leeway RIBs, which I had found in several lengthy posts on RIBnet.

1. I don't know enough to know a good boat from a bad one.
2. The posts were scarily illuminating to this non-boat owner.
3. The debates were not especially civil and somewhat hard to follow.
4. I am not any nearer to the truth of the matter but...

The provenance of the Leeway RIB design is absolutely an issue for me, especially where the initial design work appears to have been someone else's work. It sends me some important warning signals which I cannot ignore. (actual value and resale value are minor considerations) The implications of a boat design not being constructed by the original designer but by someone who has potentially copied the design are many.

Performance, safety, boat strength, boat integrity and build quality are all issues that may presage a catastrophic failure. If I were killed in an accident where I had accepted the risks for myself, for whatever activity I have engaged in for my own leisure pursuits, so be it. What would be completely unacceptable to me is where my family and friends were to be hurt. They are far too important for me to entrust their lives to some boat which may be little more than a cheap knock off. It would be remiss of me if I did not take whatever action I could to prevent a possible disaster. Accordingly, I will not be buying a Leeway boat.

Information is relatively hard to come by when searching the general internet and that is not a good sign. I know that another company (Powerplus Marine Engineering & Electronics) are apparently engaged in building the Leeway RIB but they provide precious little information to their prospective customers. All-in-all, the unclear history and the lack of background information suggests that I would be far better off if I were just to avoid the controversy, history and design issues altogether. In my humble opinion, the whole issue has VLR (very large rodent) stamped all over it.

I hope that Jeff understands and sympathises with my decision to reject the Leeway boat unseen and out of hand and that he will keep his eyes open for another boat that suits my very general brief. I am still happy to do some sort of business with him and I do not resent his effort to steer me towards a possible RIB for me nor do I take it personally.

N.B. to other RIBnet members: I will not be commenting on any other aspect of this decision in the RIBnet forum as I am sure that many RIBnet members are heartily sick of the issues surrounding Leeway RIBs.
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Old 29 October 2015, 20:59   #72
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They are the latest 'trend' in RIBbing but as you are new to this I'd suggest you keep your cheque book in your pocket until its bounced out - people have been ribbing for over 30 years, including some major trips in quite significant conditions without them. Really there are two "shock" issues on RIBs. The first is the major shock you get if you come off a big wave with a a hard landing - these can hurt and have hospitalised people. The second is the fatigue that comes with regular, repeated, long-term smaller shock which generally don't hurt but wear you out (both mentally and physically).

When the seats smooth out the ride they make it easier for the helm to drive the boat harder. That is potentially dangerous for an inexperienced helm as eventually a big wave does come along and bite you - and if you are closer to the limit when that happens injury is more likely. I think there is more of a justification for shock mitigation in protecting against the second type of shock/vibration. However those issues are far worse for those who experience them day in day out, for long shifts and who go out in all weathers. The reality is, normal leisure use doesn't expose you to the same "dose". As a new user, investing in further training (after gaining some experience) is likely to be a better way to avoid shock. If you've got thousands extra to spend on shock seats you might do better by spending it on the best hull you can afford. In all likelihood though very few leisure users go out when the weather is that bad anyway.
Thank you Poly. This post makes sound sense to me. I cannot deny that the seats which I saw close up (and drooled visibly) were things of great functionality and beauty to my engineering eye.
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Old 30 October 2015, 04:29   #73
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poly's comments are very true the reason i splashed out was i have and old back injury and the shock seat made my boating 100% more enjoyable even my wife said they were very good who's knowledge of boating is very small.
in truth driving my boat hard never really happened much as i like to enjoy the sites get close in to shore look for wild life you don't see all that at WOT.
as for buying if your not sure on construction for what ever reason OMO stick to the big builders,humber,ribcraft,XS,delta,tornado,zodiac to name a few as i said before humber has been around for 50 years not plugging them for any reason but you don't stay in business that long for nothing also they have a commercial back ground which give's confidence.
not sure if they still do it but ribcraft use to show you round their factory always a good sign.

cheers
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Old 30 October 2015, 05:48   #74
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I've got 4 of the Ullman shock mitigation seats on my Rib. Flipping expensive, but they were fitted to the boat when I bought it so I didn't actually see them individually priced. If I did I may have thought twice.

They really do smooth out the whole ride - big waves, small waves all rendered comfy. Basically I only stand up to change the view, not to cushion the ride.

You can live without them. But I'm glad I've got them fitted already. I've done whole days of cruising about in the Med in mixed conditions and never felt tired at the end. Last trip was a fast blast for 4h in a f4-5ish and ride quality didn't figure into it.

So you could go out in horrendous conditions just for the fun of it. But I think they suit longer distance / adventure seeking rough weather Ribbers, or those who need a comfy ride. More than just general messing about / cruising use.

However, there are other things you could spend the money on, like a decent engine and storage fees. They are a luxury, one I cant do without, but still a luxury.

Of course, after getting your boat and using it for a while you will soon figure out what you like and don't like. Then you can add them later. A while back there was a thread about some chap selling his second hand for a massively reduced price. (you really don't need to buy new ones)
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Old 31 October 2015, 03:52   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffstevens763@g View Post
poly's comments are very true the reason i splashed out was i have and old back injury and the shock seat made my boating 100% more enjoyable even my wife said they were very good who's knowledge of boating is very small.
in truth driving my boat hard never really happened much as i like to enjoy the sites get close in to shore look for wild life you don't see all that at WOT.
as for buying if your not sure on construction for what ever reason OMO stick to the big builders,humber,ribcraft,XS,delta,tornado,zodiac to name a few as i said before humber has been around for 50 years not plugging them for any reason but you don't stay in business that long for nothing also they have a commercial back ground which give's confidence.
not sure if they still do it but ribcraft use to show you round their factory always a good sign.

cheers

I take the point about not driving a boat hard all of the time. I think it makes sense to put the money into the hull (as per Poly's suggestion) given that I am lucky enough to not need the luxury of shock mitigation. I think that the manfacturers of boats which have been developed over long periods of time are more likely to have my support. A fifty year history suggests that companies like Humber know enough to stay in business.
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Old 31 October 2015, 05:02   #76
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the RIB market is akin to the car market where you do get what you pay for in terms of build/quality and hull design by far and large.

the most sought after 6m (ish) makes, in very general terms, assuming a "deep V" and built like a brick $hit house would probably be- Ribcraft, redbay, osprey and maybe a couple others i can't think of just now, i'm sure the lads will pitch in though!

after that lot you have quite a few UK type ribs without the hardcore V hull and still well built, although some better than others admittedly.... Ribeye, ribtec, northcraft, rib-x, most humbers, ribquest, ballistic, XS etc.

the next bunch is probably more euro style hull and seating than UK, doesn't mean bad by any means though, just different market, some are well built but just don't be going out wave jumping too often or they will break or you will!......Avon adventure, brig, narwhal etc.

now, that is a VERY rough guide but if you know what type of boat you want then you could perhaps quickly narrow it down.

i.e if you do want to go wave jumping or out in anything over an f4 ish forget the 3rd batch, they will get you home but it won't be at 25 knots and i wouldn't go far if the weather was like that to begin with. normal days out then they are ideal as quite light, more storage normally and lots of seating.

if you want to go on decent trips and perhaps get caught out with weather then the 2nd batch would perhaps do the trick nicely without the expense of running a heavy and deeper V which usually have bigger outboards due to little or no planning pads.

there are perhaps a few you could put on either list no doubt some i have forgotten to mention. i am just throwing some names out there to keep an eye on and where they may fit in your needs at a quick glance until you are more accustomed to them all.

again, if you see something then start a thread and there will probably be some owners or previous owners who can offer an insight for you to get you on the way.
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Old 31 October 2015, 06:51   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dubrus View Post
the RIB market is akin to the car market where you do get what you pay for in terms of build/quality and hull design by far and large.

the most sought after 6m (ish) makes, in very general terms, assuming a "deep V" and built like a brick $hit house would probably be- Ribcraft, redbay, osprey and maybe a couple others i can't think of just now, i'm sure the lads will pitch in though!

after that lot you have quite a few UK type ribs without the hardcore V hull and still well built, although some better than others admittedly.... Ribeye, ribtec, northcraft, rib-x, most humbers, ribquest, ballistic, XS etc.

the next bunch is probably more euro style hull and seating than UK, doesn't mean bad by any means though, just different market, some are well built but just don't be going out wave jumping too often or they will break or you will!......Avon adventure, brig, narwhal etc.

now, that is a VERY rough guide but if you know what type of boat you want then you could perhaps quickly narrow it down.

i.e if you do want to go wave jumping or out in anything over an f4 ish forget the 3rd batch, they will get you home but it won't be at 25 knots and i wouldn't go far if the weather was like that to begin with. normal days out then they are ideal as quite light, more storage normally and lots of seating.

if you want to go on decent trips and perhaps get caught out with weather then the 2nd batch would perhaps do the trick nicely without the expense of running a heavy and deeper V which usually have bigger outboards due to little or no planning pads.

there are perhaps a few you could put on either list no doubt some i have forgotten to mention. i am just throwing some names out there to keep an eye on and where they may fit in your needs at a quick glance until you are more accustomed to them all.

again, if you see something then start a thread and there will probably be some owners or previous owners who can offer an insight for you to get you on the way.
Thank you for this insight. I had somehow come to understand that a deeper V shaped hull would produce more stability in rougher seas. It had not occurred to me that it would require more power get up on the plane. I am sure that I am going to be looking for a boat from your second rough classification. It there much of an advantage in choosing to have tubes made from hypalon as opposed to any other tube material?
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Old 31 October 2015, 08:17   #78
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Performance is a trade off as with most things.

The general rule of thumb with ribs is you want the max HP, or as close as possible to it, the hull is rated for whilst staying under the weight limit for the transom. The makers site will give you that info if you need it.

As a guide, my 6.8 and df200 (ideally it should have 250hp on mine) gives 0.9 litres per mile at 3200-3800rpm which is 22-28 knots or there abouts. My old Avon adventure 5.6 with 100hp 4 stroke used half that in same cruise range, very different size and style boats though, should also mention the tech in the 2012 df200 is in a different league to the 100hp of 2006 vintage so new tech helps there for sure.

Most tubes are hypalon in the size you will be looking at with the likely exception of ribeye playtimes being PVC unless custom ordered. It is dependant though in ribeyes case so you would need to check the actual boat.

Hypalon is what you ideally want unless something good comes along, it is a better material.
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Old 31 October 2015, 08:37   #79
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Originally Posted by jepho View Post
Thank you for this insight. I had somehow come to understand that a deeper V shaped hull would produce more stability in rougher seas. It had not occurred to me that it would require more power get up on the plane. I am sure that I am going to be looking for a boat from your second rough classification. It there much of an advantage in choosing to have tubes made from hypalon as opposed to any other tube material?
Just to put this this in perspective.....more or less any 6m deep V (mean deadrise 25 degrees) will get onto the plane easily with 90hp unless it is very, very heavily laden. (50hp/ton will get you onto the plane) One of the main users of RIBs in the early days was divers and there is a huge difference between getting a 6mtr boat onto the plane (referred to as the "hole-shot") with six burrly divers, twelve bottles + associated gear and getting it onto the plane with the family and a picnic box for an afternoon cruise.
Probably want a bit more power for flexibilty but remember the bills and the weight go up with HP.

The hole shot will not be an issue....what you want is an engine that's not flat out at cruising speed. Most of us probably cruise at around 20-25knots (I'll wait for the barrage ) so if your chosen engine boat combo will do 35knots flat out then it's not going to be getting tortured running for several hours at 25knots. If you're going to use it for a bit of water skiing then your skier is going to sap about 15hp for haul-out. (Once up, the drag will be about the same as having them in the boat)
Reliability wins over top speed every time.
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Old 31 October 2015, 11:35   #80
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Jepho , I think Dubrus and Last Tango have given you some good down to earth advice .

If you go out in " adventurous " conditions in a 6M boat you and your boat will only be able to take so much of a battering . It is often said " If it's hurting you , it's also hurting the boat ! " .

Most of us will have to swallow our pride and get home at displacement speed . Assuming your boat/engine combination is reasonably propped , at displacement speeds you will probably NOT need the maximum hp your transom can take !

It's probably the wrong end of the season , but if you can join either RIBnet or BIBOA cruise and get a ride on as many different ribs as you can until you find something that really suits you . ( Someone will be along in a minute to say that you will only get big Scorpions on a BIBOA cruise but that's not true )
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