market on the continent

dnv · 12 December 2008, 20:55

Dear ribnet community

Frequently I do judging, umpiring and safety duties for yacht races. As quiet often the organizers provide crap, I am considering in buying my own rib.

I am located in Northern Germany, and do read this forum for quiet some time. As well as regularly screening the known sources - appolloduck, boatshed, boatsandoutboard, ...

To me it seems that, except the Danish Pro-Safe and some expensive dutch makes, no builders of non-toys exist here. Same goes for the 2nd hand market - nothing available, or I don't know where to look.
Consequently, I have not yet developed a feeling for a reasonable price level.

Do you have advise where to look for a spec as per below?
- Area of operation around Helgoland in German Bight, between there and mainland Germany, and on Stollergrund off Kiel.
- Duties are either umpiring, on the water judging, or rescue. On occasion family cruising on river Elbe west of Hamburg.
- Speed to catch up with, say, Farr 40
- acceleration from low speed to get out of the way of planing yachts (or breaking waves) in heavy seas.
- Capability to tow some dinghies or even J24.
- Size requirements: seating for two crew, plus transporting one rigged dinghi from optimist size up to 505 cross the tubes behind helm. Breadth limitation 2.5m due to German street regulations.
- Range at least some 120nm or 8 to 10hrs at mixed speed profile minimum.
- NO clamps on the tubes
- Navigation lights req'd.
- Trailer required.

Think that's it for the high level spec. Do you have recommendations where to look on the continent?

Thanks in advance

Tim M · 13 December 2008, 15:07

Ribcraft 585? Although I'm not totally sure you could get a dingy on the back very easily.

dnv · 13 December 2008, 15:14

Hi Tim M

this rib seems to be an option. I have done it with a 6m Bombard.

However, the question is less what Rib, rather where to look at in terms of dealer, forum, market place and of course manufacturer in general here in Northern Europe. I have found nothing like this - except the mentioned Pro-Safe - sofar. All found are dealers for med-like Ribs, or toys.
Of course I do appreciate recommendations on makes. I know that Ribcraft, Tornado, Halmatic, Osprey, or Delta fit into my spec, but still - where to buy?

regards
dnv

Tim M · 13 December 2008, 16:03

From my perspective (will be interesting to see what others think) there don't seem to be many decent used ribs out there at the moment. I keep a fairly keen eye boatsandoutboards and theres little in the way of interest at the moment. With finding the right boat I think its just a matter of sitting tight and keeping a lookout. All the websites you mentioned above are good for RIBs, my favourite is boatsandoutboards. You might find you have to travel to get the right boat. I had some blokes from Germany came and buy one off me once!

Neil Harvey · 13 December 2008, 16:44

there are manufacturers out there in northern europe.
For example, if I recall correctly, Osprey are sold in Holland, plus some others.

biffer · 13 December 2008, 16:47

parker ribs could sort you out a rib, i think they have strong ties with northern europe, i think you should go for diesel if you want towing and long distance capabilities, mine isn't made by parker but the same format is good for towing and you can drag smaller boats (lazers) up on the back, i have done similar things here in britain with my boat, you dont have to have cabin, head, bunks etc, but it comes in handy

Poly · 13 December 2008, 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by biffer

parker ribs could sort you out a rib, i think they have strong ties with northern europe,

I think he is looking for second hand rather than new though, but it might be worth talking to Parker in poland. (www.parkerribs.com).

Quote:

i think you should go for diesel if you want towing and long distance capabilities,

because petrol boats can't do that? RNLI ILB's seem to manage towing just fine... as do almost all sailing club rescue boats. Diesel might be more ecconomical, and depending where you are opperating more readily available on the dockside, but ultimately range/endurance has as much to do with fuel tank size as the fuel itself.

And if he is looking for something easy to tow on the road he's probably not going to get much deck space for rescue work if he goes inboard diesel.

Andre · 14 December 2008, 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by dnv

Dear ribnet community

Frequently I do judging, umpiring and safety duties for yacht races. As quiet often the organizers provide crap, I am considering in buying my own rib.

I am located in Northern Germany, and do read this forum for quiet some time. As well as regularly screening the known sources - appolloduck, boatshed, boatsandoutboard, ...

To me it seems that, except the Danish Pro-Safe and some expensive dutch makes, no builders of non-toys exist here. Same goes for the 2nd hand market - nothing available, or I don't know where to look.
Consequently, I have not yet developed a feeling for a reasonable price level.

Do you have advise where to look for a spec as per below?
- Area of operation around Helgoland in German Bight, between there and mainland Germany, and on Stollergrund off Kiel.
- Duties are either umpiring, on the water judging, or rescue. On occasion family cruising on river Elbe west of Hamburg.
- Speed to catch up with, say, Farr 40
- acceleration from low speed to get out of the way of planing yachts (or breaking waves) in heavy seas.
- Capability to tow some dinghies or even J24.
- Size requirements: seating for two crew, plus transporting one rigged dinghi from optimist size up to 505 cross the tubes behind helm. Breadth limitation 2.5m due to German street regulations.
- Range at least some 120nm or 8 to 10hrs at mixed speed profile minimum.
- NO clamps on the tubes
- Navigation lights req'd.
- Trailer required.

Think that's it for the high level spec. Do you have recommendations where to look on the continent?

Thanks in advance

This rib may just be what you are looking for, of course this will depend on your budget
http://www.rib.net/forum/showthread.php?t=26302

At the end of April we visited the Island of Helgoland with Seahawk V on route to the UK so my rib knows your waters

Apherel · 14 December 2008, 21:05

The speed, range, sea worthyness and towing capacity you require will be easily met with a well set up commercial type rib over 5.8 or 6.0 m.

The main issue is the size of rib you need to get a boat onboard. Our yacht club runs a range of ribs from 4-5 to 7.3m. In rescue / recovery situations it is only the 7.3m that has enough room behind the console to get a boat in. They don't fit in the 6.0m boats they way they are set up for us.

Maybe if you could specify a forward console and clear space, there might be enough space in a 6.5 or 6m boat. Worth while checking on the sailing forums what others have managed.

Outboard 4 stroke is the way to go. you need lots of room in the hull with a minimum of obstructions.

Regarding range, it makes a difference if your needs are long range in a small area, where the smaller boats would be OK, or more open waters where the longer the better.

The 7.3m with twin 140s is a superb support boat. There is an ongoing debate about it being overkill for most requirements, and costly to run, but when it is really needed, no-one ever complains.

(Edit: Re read your question and have probably responded more the the replies!)

dnv · 15 December 2008, 04:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apherel

(Edit: Re read your question and have probably responded more the the replies!)

yepp;-) However, your thoughts confirm my personal experience ref sizec and setup. I used 4m noname to 6m Tornado, with many variations in between and the sie and setup is quiet clear.

Ref my question, compared to the market situation in Northern Europe, you have far more options in UK/Eire.

Thanks

Idrian · 15 December 2008, 07:22

Why not buy a Rib in UK?

As you already said, the market for used Ribs is much bigger over there. And when you look at the exchange rate from Euro to GBP the whole thing becomes more and more interesting.

http://de.finance.yahoo.com/waehrung...bmit=Umrechnen

Two members of our german/austrian RIB-Forums already buyed a RIB in the UK. One of them buyed a used Tornado 5.4 in Irland, the other a brandnew Ribcraft 5.85.

Jelly · 15 December 2008, 07:31

Hi DNV
I do pretty much what you do except the judging, I do mark laying instead but its all rather similar.
I would not go for a diesel engined boat, but a 4 stroke outboard or twins depending on the size of hull.
The reason I say out boards is the fuel issues if you end up working on reservoirs like we occasionally do and they have banned diesel on a lot of them and the outboard is easier to clear a fouled prop.
If you are doing a lot of towing then have you considered a tow post behind the seats?
This will make towing a lot easier and another idea is not to have an A frame on the rear but a simple hoop mounted on the console to take lights and antennas. Thus you are not always having issues with towlines on each side of the a frame . Also if you work with windsurfers the board can go over the tubes and the sail can lay over the engine.
Nothing to stop you having a angled hoop to stop the tow line getting caught on the engine.
I'm surprised at the requirement to drag a dinghy across the tubes and travel with it, thats a lot of space you need and a lot of wear on the tubes and muscle to drag it in, well anything apart from lasers, toppers, oppies etc. Having done it myself its easier to strap alongside or tow astern, except when its sinking then we have dragged boats in to let them drain out while the muppet who for got to fit the bung plug swims out and put one in.
For size wise if you go for anything bigger then a 7m I would go for twin engines just so you have the maneuverability.
To get a boat set up like this I guess you will either need to buy new Osprey in Belgium springs to mind but defiantly talk to Andre as with his commercial side of the Parker boats he might already have some designs suitable already.
Your width requirement might restrict your choice, but alot of people get round that by deflating the tubes in tying them in thus reducing the width.
I would be looking at Ribcraft, Tornado, Osprey, redbay, Delta, Humber, Parker and some of the other smaller more commercial style makers. I know the RYA for their race management fleet have 6-8 blue tubed ribs of I think Slovakian manufacture, but can't comment as I've not used one yet.
If you are looking at 2nd hand and doing a bit yourself, then probably a larger ex dive boat might have the space you require if you remove the bottle rack, but check the deck for damage from dive bottles and weights that might have not been loaded with the care you would have.
Anyway thats my tuppence worth, hope it helps
James

Pete7 · 15 December 2008, 07:42

Shame about the beam issue or this could have done nicely.

http://www.alderneymarine.com/broker...b/Sparerib.pdf

Pete

ecoXR24 · 15 December 2008, 11:57

- Area of operation around Helgoland in German Bight, between there and mainland Germany, and on Stollergrund off Kiel.
- Duties are either umpiring, on the water judging, or rescue. On occasion family cruising on river Elbe west of Hamburg.
- Speed to catch up with, say, Farr 40
- acceleration from low speed to get out of the way of planing yachts (or breaking waves) in heavy seas.
- Capability to tow some dinghies or even J24.
- Size requirements: seating for two crew, plus transporting one rigged dinghi from optimist size up to 505 cross the tubes behind helm. Breadth limitation 2.5m due to German street regulations.
- Range at least some 120nm or 8 to 10hrs at mixed speed profile minimum.
- NO clamps on the tubes
- Navigation lights req'd.
- Trailer required.

The EcoXR24 is a new rib developed from an Osprey design with a very good reputation, which meets that spec. It's 7.2m, so with limited seating it would have space for a dinghy on board. The hard bow makes it very seaworthy. We are currently looking for launch customers and dealers on the continent. The low value of the pound makes it very attractive for European customers to buy from the UK at the moment.
http://www.eco-marine.co.uk

dnv · 16 December 2008, 20:21

gents

thank for your efforts in trying to help.

I conclude, that sellers/broker/market places in Northern Europe are not known and that it is recommended to continue looking in UK. However, some makes are known and nothing can be said against them.

regards
dnv

Blizzard · 02 January 2009, 08:02

I would have a look at these

http://www.vsrlab.com/

Getting more spread around europe.

CJL · 03 January 2009, 23:33

I do exactly the same stuff as you for the RYA and we actually have a spare boat up for sale at the moment. Its a Ribtec 585 with a 135 Verado.

New fourstroke outboard, new trailer, nice size with loads of deck space for mark laying, towing eyes for a towing bridle and its a nice easy size to tow, launch etc.

Check it out here: http://www.boatsandoutboards.com/view/F195817

Shameless plug over!!

Chris