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Old 09 May 2014, 06:47   #51
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Don't you need a licence to register for an M M S I number?
You get an MMSI assigned when you get your ship / ship portable radio license from Ofcom.
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Old 09 May 2014, 07:48   #52
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FYI - the course format is NOT set by RYA or it's instructors - it's set the the CEPT & ITU.

This is why the course format changed, to bring it in line with other countries. and to ensure that the RYA course is accepted world.

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Old 09 May 2014, 08:34   #53
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I await Poly's response
I have only skimmed your diatribe. I found it hard to read through tears of laughter when you suggested that VHF was as simple and intuitive to use as smartphone. Perhaps you work for Icom, SH etc - because it SHOULD be that simple but its not.
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Old 09 May 2014, 09:14   #54
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I have only skimmed your diatribe. I found it hard to read through tears of laughter when you suggested that VHF was as simple and intuitive to use as smartphone. Perhaps you work for Icom, SH etc - because it SHOULD be that simple but its not.
If you find vhf more complicated to get to grips with than utilizing the many features of a smart phone, then maybe you need more lessons?
Maybe should also be a week long residential course where you get a diploma at the end?
Do you make a living from teaching RYA courses?

Furthermore I don't take too kindly to your put downs - 'diatribe' and 'opinionated know it all student' 'tears of laughter ' etc etc

You don't know me from Adam or my background nor I you.
I expect better from some one on the admin team.

You have still not addressed my suggestion of an online learning and recertification package to get more people registered and trained ?
I ask myself why?

Last I checked this was an open forum where one can express their opinions on a given subject without fear of belittling from others, particularly from admin members.

I feel strongly that my vhf course as I stated earlier was tosh.
You did not sit in the classroom with me to experience what the lesson consisted of therefore you have NO basis to call me opinionated and a know it all.
Most of the others on the course came to the same conclusion as me.

Having read some of your sharp put down responses to others posts on other threads I could draw my own conclusions on what type of person you are and commit them to my own sarcastic words.
However I have better manners than that.
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Old 09 May 2014, 10:15   #55
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Hi kaman, you've made your views abundantly clear. You have put them across very forcefully and I don't think anyone will have any doubts about your opinions on the matter.

Taking out your frustrations on one of the volunteer moderators is not recommended though, and I strongly suggest that you calm down.
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Old 09 May 2014, 15:03   #56
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kaman - I was going to respond to your points in detail but I really can't be bothered - I have to go and pack for annoying Willk tomorrow. I have NO vested interest in RYA courses and as I said before if you search you will find my previous criticisms. However your rationale is all over the place - before discouraging others from doing legally required training I'd want to be clear in my own head that I knew why I was unhappy with the process.
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Old 09 May 2014, 15:29   #57
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Kaman, I think it's a great shame that you had such a poor experience with your VHF course. Sadly, it is true that not all training courses are everything that we'd like them to be - either because the syllabus is poorly matched to our expectations or because the instructor is less skilled than we'd like. Please don't assume that all courses are tosh on the basis of your own bad experience

I do have a vested interest to declare - in fact, probably several vested interests. I have been an RYA instructor since 1973 and I run a RYA Training Centre that does offer VHF training and assessment. The feedback we have received from the hundreds of people who have trained with us (independent feedback as well as our own questionnaires) is generally very good, but we know that we can always get better, so we do listen and try to make what positive changes we can (I've read all the comments in this thread and mentally reviewed the way that we deliver our courses). As a "course seller", yes of course I think people should get trained ... but maybe not for the reason you expect. I left a well paid job to teach boating skills because a) it's what I love and b) because I get a real kick out of seeing people do things better than they did before. I think most people would accept that a good proportion of the radio communications we hear when we're afloat are poor quality. I hope we're managing to make some small improvement in the overall average. But I certainly couldn't make a living from it - we don't make much of a margin on radio courses

I also have an interest arising from over 30 years with the RNLI, and I know from personal experience what a difference it can make when a distress call is properly constructed and complete, and (as an earlier post said) it does make for a more efficient rescue when radio comms are conducted well. It's not the most important thing, but in those situations, the more things you get right, the better it is for everyone.

I have some sympathy with your suggestion to make online training and even re certification available. The new online course from the RYA is, in my opinion, very good. As indeed are many of the books that are available. Some people learn very well from books, but we are all different and different people have different learning styles - there are others whose best chance of learning will be in a face to face situation. We should try to cater for all of them, and the learning choices are pretty good these days. Technology is improving and maybe we'll see online assessments as well before long - but I don't think we're there quite yet.
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Old 09 May 2014, 15:54   #58
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.....one can express their opinions on a given subject without fear of belittling from others.....
Ohh! the irony
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Old 09 May 2014, 16:30   #59
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Even if you think that you know how to use a radio sufficiently well to help yourself, you have an obligation in law to go to the assistance of others should the need arise and therefore a solid knowledge of the formal radio procedures required to be involved in or even coordinate a rescue is paramount. If the course was poor that's bad luck but everyone has to learn the basics in the way prescribed for the benefit of all. I am sure the bar is set deliberately low so as to encourage as many people as possible to learn even a small amount such that they themselves are safer and more useful on the water. Like many on here, I have spent hours in the classroom and at sea and have all four marine radio licences and over thirty years on the water but I don't profess to know everything about marine radio or to remember the finer details of radio procedures. Even if you didn't learn anything, I am sure others will and do.
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Old 09 May 2014, 17:09   #60
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Meant to add - you don't need to go on a course to be qualified to ring 999.
We are dealing with professional people at the other end who are there to assist and deal in emergency situations.
The very first thing that happens when u dial 999 is they trace the call. If you do nothing else but say help you will get a police car to visit the landline address.

In effect DSC red button does the same thing. Yet very very few hit the red button it has a stigma of declaring all is lost. Look at some of the big shipping incidents and u see long delays to notify incidents.

I've made numerous 999/112 calls over the last 20 years. Some with life in imminent danger. I don't mind saying that at least once or twice I've been sh@ting bricks on that call. I've made 2222 calls in hospitals and been the same. I've had extensive training to mean I actually have been trained to dial 112 and 2222, despite that you miss details. fine on the phone not so good if you loose vhf link... Look for the MAIB report into the fishing boat off Stornoway last year... They had seconds to call. Boat name misheard. People died.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaflyer02 View Post
If I remember correctly anyone (with or without passing the VHF test) can call for help in an emergency. Is everybody aware that transmissions on VHF are recorded?
In the Stornoway case they replayed the recording and got the correct name. But the location was never transmitted if I recall. So not transmitted can't be replayed.

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Smart phones don't come with instructions - you go online to find out how to perform the more technical tasks. Their owners don't have to go on a course.

Even the most advanced VHF radio is VERY simple to use to its full potential in comparison to a smart phone.
..
More like an old phone. Finding where some rubbish setting is stored in a menu can take an age.

So u don't program your mmsi. You don't interface ur GPS. Sh1t hits fan ... Not quite like not being able to switch off predictive text...

You want to send a pan pan/urgency call can u do it from red button. Hang on I'll just Google it. You are sinking. Can you just hit red or if you hit red will it ask what ur distress is so its sent? Oh no that's right the people who designed the specs for DSC didn't think of that so you have to go into a sub-menu to pick ur distress. Let me just Google the menu...

Your GPS is switched off on your smart phone and you open a map and it asks if you want to switch it on and it does it. No GPS signal on DSC you'll be lucky to be told. Unlucky and it sends your position an hour ago. It certainly doesn'ttirn an external GPS on.

You overhear a boat 2 miles from you close to cliffs send a mayday. His call goes unanswerd by CG. Should u relay it. Should you hit the big red to do the relay?
Quote:

In this digital age I think there would be a greater uptake if the whole course and exam could be done online (like the driving theory test) with a lower price tag attached to it.
how would u know who sits the test? You'll get people doing tests for other people?
Is driving theory done online now?
How u going to do a practical call? You could have some form of Skype idea to an examiner but it needs a human assessor. Human costs money.

Quote:
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Don't you need a licence to register for an M M S I number?
No certificate of competence required.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaman View Post
If you find vhf more complicated to get to grips with than utilizing the many features of a smart phone, then maybe you need more lessons?
Maybe should also be a week long residential course where you get a diploma at the end?
The cat A device one is I believe. But they can acknowledge maydays etc

Smart phone... Is there something in the name that makes u think it might be user friendly...

Unlike Cat D DSC VHF Marine Radio

Take people here s advice the time to wish you'd done the course is not when you are able deep in water..
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