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Old 13 December 2019, 16:47   #1
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Storing a Sib on these docs?

Hi all

Currently have a 3.2 Honwave air floor and finding a pain to set up and pack down on each outing.
So considering getting a larger sib (possibly small rib )and keeping it at one of these doc at my local harbour.
So just wanting to know peoples thoughts on leaving permanently with the outboard on the back?
Also would i be able to power the sib onto the doc easily?
The RNLI boat is 4.8 long to give you an idea of the size.
Ive been looking at excel sibs ally floor around 4m to keep the back end out the water and have better support at the outboard.
Cheers
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Old 14 December 2019, 04:57   #2
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Loss of pressure is bound to be a concern, if it drops a few pounds between visits (temperature?) Then it will flex more in waves. Flexing outs more strain on things. RNLI will be using that boat minimum weekly possibly more often.

Why would you choose a SIB? My understanding of SIBs is the only real advantage is the packaway ability. Perhaps weight, perhaps draught. A RIB on there would be fine and perform better on the water.

Not sure what that RNLI boat is? Is it a Y boat? In which case it is a SIB but the advantage to the RNLI is they have them in stock and can swap if damaged etc.
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Old 14 December 2019, 07:00   #3
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Hi Shiny
Before going out i would check the pressure and top up if needed, yes sure my main concern is the loss of pressure with the outboard left on causing stress on the transom etc.

The advantages of storing a sib for me is mainly the cost of a sib compared to a rib ,also i wouldn't need a trailer if stored on the doc and theres no ramp at the harbour so you have to pay for a crane lift in and out each time with a rib.
I would look to get a 25hp 2stroke so if needed could lift off with help to service and store etc.
I know a rib will out perform a sib given the same outboard but have read that the sib would probable be a slightly more comfatble ride in chop compared to a small shallow v rib is this correct?
I would feel more confident leaving a rib on the doc with a solid floor but this is at a missive cost and really enjoyed my little honwave sib.

Im not sure what a y boat is ? but the RNLI Boat just looked like a ally floor sib to me.
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Old 14 December 2019, 09:44   #4
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I'd agree that a rib would be a better bet & would out perform a sib in every way. I've changed from a sib tender to a lightweight rib tender and the rib rides tons better. The only extra feeling of comfort may be the air floor if your kneeling to steer but if I were in your shoes I'd be looking for a rib with console rather than tiller steering.
On the other hand if the sib is short enough you may be able to rest the engine on a chock on the dock to relieve stress on the transom
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Old 14 December 2019, 10:50   #5
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Y boat is an rnli tender to a larger off shore lifeboat kept on a deep water mooring or stored on board Severn class boats https://rnli.org/what-we-do/lifeboat...class-lifeboat
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Old 14 December 2019, 12:39   #6
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Originally Posted by beamishken View Post
I'd agree that a rib would be a better bet & would out perform a sib in every way. I've changed from a sib tender to a lightweight rib tender and the rib rides tons better. The only extra feeling of comfort may be the air floor if your kneeling to steer but if I were in your shoes I'd be looking for a rib with console rather than tiller steering.
On the other hand if the sib is short enough you may be able to rest the engine on a chock on the dock to relieve stress on the transom
I wanted to stick with a tiler just to keep things simple and keep the boat light as i want as much power with a small outboard as possible to wake foil/board and generally blast around on flat days.
I can get up behind my 15hp two stroke on a wakeboard, can't carve to much as it just pulls the boat around but still fun and even easier with the foil board so was thinking a 25-30hp would be a nice amount of power for what i wanted.
Is your rib tender aluminium?
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Old 14 December 2019, 13:37   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Windsurfer View Post
I wanted to stick with a tiler just to keep things simple and keep the boat light as i want as much power with a small outboard as possible to wake foil/board and generally blast around on flat days.
I can get up behind my 15hp two stroke on a wakeboard, can't carve to much as it just pulls the boat around but still fun and even easier with the foil board so was thinking a 25-30hp would be a nice amount of power for what i wanted.
Is your rib tender aluminium?
Hi yes our tender is an aluminium hull ribeye & its actually lighter than the previous excell air deck.
We also have a 3.6m rib with centre console & it originally had an old Yamaha 28hp 2 stroke. We used it extensively for watersports & general messing about when we used to caravan (used to car top it) I could easily wakeboard off it & monoski too but had to start on 2 skis and drop one or snatch start with plenty of slack so if you go with your upper engine size you should be able to do everything you want & having a console makes life so much easier for the driver.
If you want realy lightweight & a tiller thats fine but you do have the option of either
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Old 14 December 2019, 13:54   #8
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Why is it any different from leaving it on a trailer I leave my SIB on all year it never goes down enough to be a problem
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Old 15 December 2019, 02:50   #9
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Apart from the convenience of storage, a SIB is also easier to beach and refloat than a RIB. A SIB is ideal for exploring small coves and hidden beaches. It will also ride at anchor as a more stable platform for swimming, fishing etc. You can carry a SIB to launch sites and assemble it on the beach where there is no access to a trailer. I have launched and recovered my SIB single handed over a vertical drop of 3 feet; try that with a RIB.

However, a RIB outperforms a SIB in most respects when it is actually under way. All of the many advantages of a SIB come at the cost of compromises in outright performance.


One of those floating docks might be ideal. However:
  • You would have to monitor the pressure. As the hull is out of the water and in direct sunlight, you may have to let pressure out to compensate for expansion.
  • You would need to top up the pressure before setting off. A foot pump or hand pump would do.
  • You would need to be confident of security. How long would your outboard remain un-stolen?
  • You would need to check what your insurance policysays. Many policies provide limited or no cover if a boat is unattended at "moorings" for more than a few hours.
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Old 15 December 2019, 10:27   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beamishken View Post
Hi yes our tender is an aluminium hull ribeye & its actually lighter than the previous excell air deck.
We also have a 3.6m rib with centre console & it originally had an old Yamaha 28hp 2 stroke. We used it extensively for watersports & general messing about when we used to caravan (used to car top it) I could easily wakeboard off it & monoski too but had to start on 2 skis and drop one or snatch start with plenty of slack so if you go with your upper engine size you should be able to do everything you want & having a console makes life so much easier for the driver.
If you want realy lightweight & a tiller thats fine but you do have the option of either
Yes sure a console would make it way easier and more comfortable to control , but i also like the thought of having the extra space on board.

Do you think a 2stroke is the better option for what i want in regards to the low down power and torque for pulling boarders up compared to a similar aged 4stroke?Also the weight of the 2stroke on a small set up.
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Old 15 December 2019, 10:36   #11
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Originally Posted by jeffstevens763@g View Post
Why is it any different from leaving it on a trailer I leave my SIB on all year it never goes down enough to be a problem
Hi Jeff ,I really like the look of your set up and if i go down the sib rout that would be the one i would buy.
Do the docs look like they would support well to you ? Also do you leave your out board on and have extra support for this?
My main concern would be slight loss in pressure causing more stress around the transom over long periods of time , also trying to get the sib on the doc they maybe more friction than a grp or ally hull.
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Old 15 December 2019, 10:48   #12
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Originally Posted by Mikefule View Post
Apart from the convenience of storage, a SIB is also easier to beach and refloat than a RIB. A SIB is ideal for exploring small coves and hidden beaches. It will also ride at anchor as a more stable platform for swimming, fishing etc. You can carry a SIB to launch sites and assemble it on the beach where there is no access to a trailer. I have launched and recovered my SIB single handed over a vertical drop of 3 feet; try that with a RIB.

However, a RIB outperforms a SIB in most respects when it is actually under way. All of the many advantages of a SIB come at the cost of compromises in outright performance.


One of those floating docks might be ideal. However:
  • You would have to monitor the pressure. As the hull is out of the water and in direct sunlight, you may have to let pressure out to compensate for expansion.
  • You would need to top up the pressure before setting off. A foot pump or hand pump would do.
  • You would need to be confident of security. How long would your outboard remain un-stolen?
  • You would need to check what your insurance policysays. Many policies provide limited or no cover if a boat is unattended at "moorings" for more than a few hours.

Thanks for your points , I guess a full cover would help.
Security seems good as its all gated and you need a key card to get in also loads of cameras.
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Old 15 December 2019, 11:07   #13
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Thanks for your points , I guess a full cover would help.
Security seems good as its all gated and you need a key card to get in also loads of cameras.
Just need to make sure you comply with insurers security requirements and inform insurer its kept in a marina (worth checking with marina office if there are any brokers they recommend)

Would you keep it on the pontoon all year round or only during the season? Iíve not seen SIBS on those pontoons elsewhere normally ribs or skis

If tubes were to deflate in a sib and the only fixing was to the bow (usual on these) could the weight of the motor pull it into the water or risk detachment of transom from tubes?
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Old 15 December 2019, 12:33   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Windsurfer View Post
Yes sure a console would make it way easier and more comfortable to control , but i also like the thought of having the extra space on board.

Do you think a 2stroke is the better option for what i want in regards to the low down power and torque for pulling boarders up compared to a similar aged 4stroke?Also the weight of the 2stroke on a small set up.
Yeh a two stroke for your use every time, far less to go wrong & much easier to fix when they do and usualy significantly lighter than a 4 stroke
We had the console on quick release clips so had both options but we had the luxury of building the boat ourselves so built it to our needs. Still got it 20 years later now has a 40 2 stroke on it but I'd hate to part with it its just so versatile
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Old 15 December 2019, 12:46   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDAV View Post
If tubes were to deflate in a sib and the only fixing was to the bow (usual on these) could the weight of the motor pull it into the water or risk detachment of transom from tubes?
Unlikely that the tubes would deflate significantly. Even if they did, the engine is not going to rip the transom off, if the engine is within the weight limit of the boat, and the transom and fittings are sound.
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Old 15 December 2019, 13:02   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Windsurfer View Post
Hi Jeff ,I really like the look of your set up and if i go down the sib rout that would be the one i would buy.
Do the docs look like they would support well to you ? Also do you leave your out board on and have extra support for this?
My main concern would be slight loss in pressure causing more stress around the transom over long periods of time , also trying to get the sib on the doc they maybe more friction than a grp or ally hull.
Only my opinion for me the SIB is more versatile than most boats and if you follow gurnard on here he portrays it well for various reasons one being the cheapest way to get afloat.
Now the docking system your looking at is great you might have to install a small winch to get the boat where it needs to be unless your a strong bloke and you can pull it on after you drive on as far as the boat will go. Many seem to worry about tube pressures don't unless your boat has a bad leak it will keep its shape if only 1 psi having said that if you have then all the engine will do is rest on the boat floor and the dock. I would deflate the keel so the boat doesn't rock and is level on both tubes, don't forget a SIB is meant to fold up so no detrimental affect. A cover is a must a good one at that too UV protection seagul shite etc. If you go rib and I mean a shallow V at that length the dock needs to be able to support it and stop it rocking tubes won't be a problem as it will rest on the hull. Now I've had loads of boats and as some have said the rib out performs the sib in some ways but for comfort personally I find them diserpointing as the hull slams in the rough with a sib it absorbs some of the slam not all, in the calm both ride well with the rib out performing on speed for same engine speed. Now letting the boat dry out on the beach in wave movement the sib is more forgiving where the rib will scratch up. As I said I leave my boat on a trailer and don't touch it until the start of the season when it get pumped up I only touch it when it gets to the high 20 degrees and let some air out. I've looked into volume rise verses degrees in temperature I just forget now what the sums are but 10 degrees in temp rise doesn't get near test pressure of a tube at working pressure of the tube.
Interestingly my new boat has a pressure relief valve in the bow so you blow that one up first and then the next working to the stern so when the valve blows off they all go down something to consider, if you buy an excel boat it's standard fit.
Read my thread on the fit out of the new boat for some info.
Having said all that you won't be leaving the boat for very long periods without Visiting it to make adjustments as needed
Friction wise the boat is wet throw some water on the dock no probs then, washing up liquid will help if you struggle but I dought it, some docks come with rollers too but not nessasary, those docks look like they are for jet ski's you might get away with leaving the keel inflated
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Old 15 December 2019, 13:58   #17
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here you go




0.003 bar 0.045psi= 1 degree Celsius temp rise of air in boat tubes
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Old 15 December 2019, 15:06   #18
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Originally Posted by HDAV View Post
Just need to make sure you comply with insurers security requirements and inform insurer its kept in a marina (worth checking with marina office if there are any brokers they recommend)

Would you keep it on the pontoon all year round or only during the season? Iíve not seen SIBS on those pontoons elsewhere normally ribs or skis

If tubes were to deflate in a sib and the only fixing was to the bow (usual on these) could the weight of the motor pull it into the water or risk detachment of transom from tubes?
I would keep on the pontoon all year round and only take it off if i need to do anything to it clean etc.
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Old 15 December 2019, 15:10   #19
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Yeh a two stroke for your use every time, far less to go wrong & much easier to fix when they do and usualy significantly lighter than a 4 stroke
We had the console on quick release clips so had both options but we had the luxury of building the boat ourselves so built it to our needs. Still got it 20 years later now has a 40 2 stroke on it but I'd hate to part with it its just so versatile
Sounds like you have a great set up with that, i bet you need to be easy on the throttle with the 40hp!
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Old 15 December 2019, 16:16   #20
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Originally Posted by jeffstevens763@g View Post
Only my opinion for me the SIB is more versatile than most boats and if you follow gurnard on here he portrays it well for various reasons one being the cheapest way to get afloat.
Now the docking system your looking at is great you might have to install a small winch to get the boat where it needs to be unless your a strong bloke and you can pull it on after you drive on as far as the boat will go. Many seem to worry about tube pressures don't unless your boat has a bad leak it will keep its shape if only 1 psi having said that if you have then all the engine will do is rest on the boat floor and the dock. I would deflate the keel so the boat doesn't rock and is level on both tubes, don't forget a SIB is meant to fold up so no detrimental affect. A cover is a must a good one at that too UV protection seagul shite etc. If you go rib and I mean a shallow V at that length the dock needs to be able to support it and stop it rocking tubes won't be a problem as it will rest on the hull. Now I've had loads of boats and as some have said the rib out performs the sib in some ways but for comfort personally I find them diserpointing as the hull slams in the rough with a sib it absorbs some of the slam not all, in the calm both ride well with the rib out performing on speed for same engine speed. Now letting the boat dry out on the beach in wave movement the sib is more forgiving where the rib will scratch up. As I said I leave my boat on a trailer and don't touch it until the start of the season when it get pumped up I only touch it when it gets to the high 20 degrees and let some air out. I've looked into volume rise verses degrees in temperature I just forget now what the sums are but 10 degrees in temp rise doesn't get near test pressure of a tube at working pressure of the tube.
Interestingly my new boat has a pressure relief valve in the bow so you blow that one up first and then the next working to the stern so when the valve blows off they all go down something to consider, if you buy an excel boat it's standard fit.
Read my thread on the fit out of the new boat for some info.
Having said all that you won't be leaving the boat for very long periods without Visiting it to make adjustments as needed
Friction wise the boat is wet throw some water on the dock no probs then, washing up liquid will help if you struggle but I dought it, some docks come with rollers too but not nessasary, those docks look like they are for jet ski's you might get away with leaving the keel inflated
Yes the affordability of the sib is a big plus for me and not having to buy and store a trailer would be another bonus.
I also like that they sit lower in the water and the smother ride in the chop would be appreciated.
I could hook trailer winch to the dock cleat maybe and the washing up liquid would be a good idea.
They are jet ski docs and think theres a little roller at the end of them.
Good to know the pressure isn't going to be a problem and something i can get a feel for over time.
Im not sure what you mean about the pressure relief valve , how do they all go down if they're separate chambers?
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