Sea safe

[Cumbria]

Np good to have all opinions .. Great to be a part of this and enjoying picking up knowledge.

[The Gurnard]

Hi Cumbria good to see you starting out on a fantastic hobby but be aware it is very addictive. I quit work so I could pursue my love of the sea as much as I can before I can no longer go.

The 32IE is a great boat ..I have a mate who has one and he enjoys surfing Force 5 wave conditions on it.

Not that I recommend you doing that as a start off..but it is comforting to know your boat is more capable than your abilities as a beginner.

Just for interest..I started SIB life going to sea in a 2.75 seago slat floor powered by a 2.5HP outboard so in good conditions no boat is too small IMO. You have a far better first set up than I had.



I used it for 10 years and learned most my SIB techniques in that outfit as I had to think like the kayakers and use winds and tides to my advantage.. a skill that helps me even to this day in the bigger boats for remote areas. Of course I could only use it in calm condition days but that was not a problem for me back then.

My brother has a similar sized FRib to your boat and it happily takes three adults and a child to sea in good conditions. The youngsters love it. Its powered by a 6HP so wont plane with that load but Im from the generation where most sea going small boats went at displacement speed ..something the speeding younger generation know little about ?



I started in sheltered waters on calm days and built up confidence and experience before going into more exposed waters with breaking waves. I quickly found it is easier having the wind and waves blowing my wee boats along than fighting into it..so always made sure my first few trips were heading into wind and waves at the start of the journey so if they increased..I could get back to shore with them assisting me.

Anyhoo.. enjoy the new boat..My thoughts are you know what suits you better than anyone..and if anyone suggests that you made a mistake..just reply they should have bought a RIB instead of that SIB on a trailer...all the forum experts told you so …

[Fenlander]

>>> but Im from the generation where most sea going small boats went at displacement speed

Ha ha me too... and larger boats. Years ago had a great trip to The Channel Isles from Southampton... max 8kts. Two weeks out of Southampton visiting Brittany max 10kts.

First boat I owned myself as a teen a 12ft clinker dinghy runabout with 1lit 4cyl inboard... max 6kts.

[The Gurnard]

Ahh..memories Fenlander ..some say those were the good old days..others tell the truth

I was almost born in the shelter of the bow of a C Fly dinghy as she raced round Chanonry Point .. almost 65 years ago.. thats me in the middle .. aged three with my first boat..the wee green one.



I was given my fist real boat when I was too was 12 ..it was was home built by my uncle and replicated a boat called a Picollo. A forerunner for todays Topers and Lasers etc ?



Yet some forum folk say its dangerous to go to sea with anything less than 10HP ..which is very possibly correct for their level of boating skills.

Perhaps we were lucky to survive them old days Fenlander.. We had no GPS VHF DSC or mobile phones. PB2 ..what's that ..something to eat ?? .. We learned quick or Darwin’s law had its way with us.

Cumbria ..perhaps you will be like us. .bitten by the sea bug for the rest of your days ..and you may pass that onto your kids too.

[Cumbria]

Thx again guys great info . I hope my 10 year old takes to it , she loves the sea wild swimming even I winter on Harris and Lewis . Yes my have to go bigger but wanted to learn on lakes and sheltered areas. Thought getting the 15hp would help if I wanted to go bigger later.
Soo excited to be getting it this coming week, hope to get out on ulswater at weekend for 1st go.
Booking on Ocean Youth Trust's power RYA level 2 costing £250 In Tyne Newcastle. Hope it's worth it.

[jeffstevens763@g]

Thats the way to go cumbria enjoy

[Highland Haggis]

Cumbria VHF radio course would be good to get at a later date it will just take time to build your gear up hope you have fun next weekend on your first voyage

[Gazzago]

Let us know how the RYA level 2 course goes. I wouldn’t mind doing one myself. It’s just finding the time [emoji1].

[Poly]

Originally Posted by The Gurnard

PB2 ..what's that ..something to eat ?? .. We learned quick or Darwin’s law had its way with us.

s:

Better drowned than duffers. If not duffers then won’t drown! although the father in Arthur Ransom’s book had of course passed on his nautical knowledge to his children before he said that! Perhaps the best way for a newbie to avoid being a duffer is to do the course!

[The Gurnard]

Yup..agree Poly and you correctly got the meaning from my post starting..

“ Some say those were the good old days ..others tell the truth”

Without doubt the greatest gift my father left me was his love of the sea. He introduced his family to it as soon as we could walk. He not only showed us the ropes but he also taught me it was a sheet or a halyard I was to pull ... depending in which rope it was.

Back in those days the coastlines were littered with little red sails. That was the most popular way to get to sea. Sailing clubs sprang up all other the place so it was easy for folk to buy or more often than not ..make their own boat and learn their skills though a club. It was real experience gained in those days ..not reading internet answers thinking they are gospel words.



Although I was given a home made boat at age of 12 ..the boat was built by my uncle , an architect and one of the founders of sailing club at Troon, Barrassie ... so it was a proper job. However before he gave me it I had to prove that I could capsize and right it on my own.

Every year or so I still practise self rescue by jumping out my SIB ..it tests for myself how I get on with the clothes that I chose to wear for boating and how I get back in my boat. As such ... I know the range of my handheld VHF when its at head high and Im swimming in a smallish wave...in other words its aerial is inches from the water surface. It may frighten those who think it will call the coast guard..its difficult enough to transmit a few hundred yards to the kayakers I often go with.

For most my SIB days I had no problem getting into the boat but two years ago I started to struggle due to age and stiffening bones. That told me it was time to get a small boarding ladder. I cant get a foot up high enough to get onto the leg of the outboard ..when Im bogged down with wet clothes and old leg joints.

I have often asked other SIB guys..do you practise self rescue .. very very few have said yes..so they are relying on stuff they read..mostly from the internet ?

To be sea safe .. I would advise any boater to practise self rescue..it is drummed into kayakers ..dinghy sailors .. anywhere there are clubs. Obviously do it is safe waters and have someone ready to assist as you may find it more difficult that reading ..”ach just climb up the OB leg..its easy” The day you may find you cant..mat be your last day !!

I would strongly recommend PB2 too..however my only comment on the course is people go on it for a couple of days then think they can then sail round the UK because they are trained. I see that all the time .. but at least they will understand the theory of why they drowned.

You cant beat personal experience...so even with PB2 ..start with baby steps.

Of course this is all only my opinion.. others are free to disagree.

To end my post I will add another classic saying ..not by Arthur Ransnom though..but worth a thought ?


“Teach a man to fish and he’ll turn around and try to teach you to fish like he invented it and you’re an idiot”

[Fenlander]

>>>“Teach a man to fish and he’ll turn around and try to teach you to fish like he invented it and you’re an idiot”

Ha ha… excellent.

I must admit despite talk of the old days and the lack of today's "essential" safety gear I was an early adopter of the stylish buoyancy aid...

[Fenlander]

Then a little later seeming not trusted with a challenging tack but at least keeping to the safety wear...

[Fenlander]

Then a little older in the Channel Isles when realisation dawned a good jumper was all the floatation you needed..

[The Gurnard]

You are absolutely correct Fenlander .. there is no excuse for not wearing a life jacket or buoyancy aid.

We did although my limited choice of photos I have of those days possibly dont show that.

A crop of the three brothers in the boat wearing Kapok (sp?) lifejackets. My mother.. god bless her .. would have jumped in the back of the boat to pose for the photo as she too wore them when at sea.



And again the posing photo of the piccolo ..showing the yellow life jacket on the deck..it was always worn before setting off.



Because I have spent so much time on the water .. I confess that I have had a few hairy moments too.

The closest I came to death was when I overturned a kayak in the Clyde in late December seas around 2005. I was half a mile off Cumbrae coast and in those days did not have a drysuit. I was a good swimmer so swam to shore. I was far too cold to muster the energy to get back in the kayak ..despite my two companion kayakers trying to assist.

I hung onto the back of one of their kayaks as they paddled like mad for the shore ..I assisted with strongly kicking my legs. Classroom theory told me not to move..conserve heat ..but that for me in those circumstances was the wrong option when I could get to shore in a few moments.

I had no problems until I got to shore. It was a little later when I stood up and the bitter December wind chill on wet clothes and the shock of the incident that hypothermia started to kick in.

I do believe it was the survival bag that one of the guys carried that saved my life that day.

They took my sodden clothes off ..put me in the dry clothes we carried then wrapped me up in the survival bag out of the wind until I recovered. I always carry a survival bag with me since that day.. yet I seldom see it mentioned in lists of essential safety gear ?.

In that particular incident we had VHF .. flares .. you name it ..but the two guys I was with..luckily for me ..both doctors ..agreed that if I was relying on outside help coming..I would possibly not be here writing this. The kayakers were club trained and regularly self rescued.

I was not able to roll the kayak despite my experience .. I foolishly took the attitude..I know what Im doing ..I will never fall in !!

Most folks cant afford everything when they start..but some things cost very little .. the survival bag was nothing more than a large plastic bag ..cost around £5 and takes up no space at all. A lidl drybag for dry clothes is a few quid too. Its not needed on lovely warm summer days ..but could save a life on a cold windy day.

Fortunately I have only needed it the once ………...

[jeffstevens763@g]

I ve got survival bags 40 years old and carried space blankets and chemical warmers too as you say Donny for less than £20 will save your life.

[neil.mccrirrick]

I carry survival bags too. A fast ride on a rib when wet is not nice. If you are a diver you will have experience of this when your suit leaked etc. It’s just discomfort when in dive kit wet through in clothes those bags will save lives [emoji106]

[The Gurnard]

Good to hear that guys.

I should add that I was only in the sea for seven minutes ..but the coastline was remote...the nearest town and professional help was a ferry trip away.


Because we were prepared for emergency situations ..after half an hour of me collapsing on the beach then being warmed in the survival bag ..I watched the kayakers tow my boat back to Largs and I walked round and got the ferry back to my car ..then drove home.

A cold day in 2005 where the tide almost took me away

I guess you all know sea temperatures in December in Scotland are warmer than in April when the main boating season begins !!







Even a slip on seaweed while launching a boat can have you soaking wet ..and if you have no where to go ..at this time of year it can be fatal if you cant get out the wind and into dry clothes.

I prefer being very independent and carry an aux OB.. spare prop etc. I have never once sent a pan pan or Mayday call although I have had assistance from a couple friends at times. Obviously I would have no hesitation sending a distress call..but being prepared has prevented that so far...and I hope that continues.

As for flares in a SIB .. I quickly ditched mine after watching Gordon Brown..the kayak instructors video where he let off his rocket flare for demonstration purposes only. The base bounced off the deck and hit him in the face .. bruising it .. his hands were also burnt.

Imagine he was in a SIB beside the fuel tank when that rogue rocket went off ?

Photo of Gordon and his rocket flare .. taken by my brother Douglas ..



I now prefer a PLB and VHF but I certainly could not afford them when I started.. I went in company of others who did have them

Just some food for though ..based on personal experience ... although perhaps I have been unlucky and experienced folk dont fall in the water ???!!!

[Fenlander]

Hmm might add a couple of survival bags to our kit... they can go in the bag with our Gurnard approved beach rollers. So we can pull out at an unexpected landing... and live to tell the tale.

Any advice on types or brands?

[The Gurnard]

Cheapest Go Outdoors is £2.49 ..most expensive is £9.9.

https://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/search/...val&apelog=yes


It was a double bag that saved me that day because one of the doctors (my brother) got in beside me to help warm me up ..but possibly more important ..to breath additional carbon dioxide into the bag.

I cant remember the reason why but I do recall (because they were doctors) they knew that breathing in carbon dioxide helped folk suffering from hypothermia shock. I will try to find out the medical reason why just to ensure that is the case ..but Im certain I remember that.

My survival bag is home made from an old tent. Im a dab hand with a sewing machine. Basically its only to keep the wind off to allow the body to start heating up. I also had a flask of coffee poured down my throat ..and I enjoyed that coffee very much.

I use the bag for many uses too such as keeping dirty washing dry when Im away on long trips..but I also ensure its always to hand and always dry...so don't put the mackerel I catch in it

[neil.mccrirrick]

It was probably an attempt to make you breathe more deeply. When we breathe we create co2 as waste gas. This makes the brain tell you to breathe to equal the pressure in your system. Too much co2 means breathe basically