Safewater training vs west kirby sailing

[thestig1973]

Powerboat 2 training

Safewater £275

Wirral sailing centre £185 (if a 2nd person on course)

I've heard/read good things about safewater training, I spoke to mark who seemed a really nice guy, also answered all my questions and I have no doubt that its an excellent place.

Obviously £90 extra is a lot of cash to attain the same qualification, but will the extra cash give me better training?

Thoughts and advice welcome

[Poly]

I don't know either of the organisations. From what I could gather some time ago when I looked at courses - there were specialist powerboat schools and there were sailing schools who offered it on the side. If you mostly intend to do safety boat type work for a sailing club etc then the latter might be just as good, if not better; perhaps focussing more on slow speed manoeuvres, towing etc. In theory the syllabus is the same but a dedicated powerboat school might have more emphasis on passage planning, launch and recovery in different sites / locations, chart work / bouyage, etc.

Your pricing suggest this might not be the case, but the sailing schools are usually running bigger courses (more people - but same maximum rations). This might mean you spend a lot of time on issues other people struggle with and you don't, waiting for the whole group to catch up. With a smaller group and good instructor it is easier for the pace / length of individual sessions to be adapted to your ability / knowledge.

On the other hand, there is quite a difference between say a 7m boat with 150 HP engine and a 4m boat with a 30 HP... so if the type of boat you will learn on is very different from what you will use, you might not get the most out of it (of course the ideal school has all sorts of boats so you experience the differences).

[SeaSkills]

Originally Posted by thestig1973

Obviously £90 extra is a lot of cash to attain the same qualification, but will the extra cash give me better training?

Thoughts and advice welcome

I think you should ask yourself which you want most - the qualification or the training - then you'll be better placed to decide where you're most likely to get what you want. If it's just the qualification, it's an easy choice - go for the cheapest (and I know places where you can do a powerboat L2 for less that that). If you want to learn more about your boat and how to get the most out of it the decision may be a bit harder ... but you would know what questions you want to ask them both: what sort of experience they have, what sort of boats they use, how many powerboaters have they trained etc etc

[thestig1973]

Thanks for the replies, some really good points to consider there. I think safewater offer training more specific to the type of boating I intend doing (Wirral sailing training is partially on the lake, not much in the sea)
Good point polly made about frustration waiting for the group to learn things I already know, could spend that time learning something new. Safewater use a 5m rib, Wirral sailing use a 6m Humber I beleive, I use a 3.8m zodiac futura, so another plus for safewater
Another excellent point (seaskills) I want the actual training.... Not just the certificate, and when I asked questions I know who sounded more knowledgable and helpful.

I guess I'm better paying a bit extra and getting the course I want, not the most affordable. I'll call Mark at safewater and get it booked :-)

[pow2gran]

I did my PB2 with safewater and had no complaints. In fact I thoroughly enjoyed myself! A good choice.

[thestig1973]

Originally Posted by pow2gran

I did my PB2 with safewater and had no complaints. In fact I thoroughly enjoyed myself! A good choice.

Good recommendation there, I'm doing the PB2 because I just want to make sure I'm safe and knowledgable if I take my kids out in the sea, and I think I'll enjoy the course. I don't actually have any need for the certificate
Like most people, I "think" I'd be ok taking them out with the experience I have now, but obviously it's something I can't afford to take a chance on

[ShinyShoe]

I'm a member of a sailing club. I could have had my PB2 for free. But I paid about £220 to go 200miles to do it because I wanted to be able to do things with a RIB that I knew they would gloss over while I was reasonably happy I knew things like basics as I'm a WAFI and I also knew some of the people who would be on a maxed out club course might be parents who don't sail etc.

My course I was the only paying student. There was a guy who's been helping out on the PB School's rib rides who came and did a bit of training one day but not the next.

The wind was awful F6 gusting 7 at one point which was not great for slow speed manouvres. Really good experience though. But it meant I didn't complete in the 2 days. If that was a group course, possibly taught by volunteers, you get less choice of extra days (if they are even offerred!). I was able to come the next day as it suited me and the instructor and we finished up...

I don't think my centre was the best I chose it because I could use my parents house for accomodation. But I do think I learned 3 or 4 times more than I would of on a club course and I also think I had probably nearly 3 times more time doing the manouvres as the ratio was 1:1 most of the time.

[thestig1973]

Originally Posted by ShinyShoe

I'm a member of a sailing club. I could have had my PB2 for free. But I paid about £220 to go 200miles to do it because I wanted to be able to do things with a RIB that I knew they would gloss over while I was reasonably happy I knew things like basics as I'm a WAFI and I also knew some of the people who would be on a maxed out club course might be parents who don't sail etc.

My course I was the only paying student. There was a guy who's been helping out on the PB School's rib rides who came and did a bit of training one day but not the next.

The wind was awful F6 gusting 7 at one point which was not great for slow speed manouvres. Really good experience though. But it meant I didn't complete in the 2 days. If that was a group course, possibly taught by volunteers, you get less choice of extra days (if they are even offerred!). I was able to come the next day as it suited me and the instructor and we finished up...

I don't think my centre was the best I chose it because I could use my parents house for accomodation. But I do think I learned 3 or 4 times more than I would of on a club course and I also think I had probably nearly 3 times more time doing the manouvres as the ratio was 1:1 most of the time.

So even though you forked out £220 you still got value for your money and were satisfied with the training
I've decided to pay the extra and get the training I feel suits my needs
I'd be gutted if I paid £185, got the certificate but hadn't learned anything

[Paul Glatzel]

I forget where I read this quote recently and who said it but it is pretty spot on:

“Price is what you pay, value is what you get”

As you have identified there are lots of schools around and there is a wide difference in prices. Whilst the qualification is ultimately the same I would venture to suggest that there is often (but not always) a real difference between centres whose core activity is training people on powerboats versus those who are multi activity centres or are sailing clubs. Things to consider:

- The craft you will use. Professional powerboat schools will tend to run larger, newer, more highly specced craft than sailing clubs and multi activity centres
- The instructors will most likely be absolute specialists in powerboats rather than their core expertise being dinghies or other craft with the powerboat sector being an add on

I appreciate that this sounds like a sales spiel for a professional powerboat school but there are real benefits for some courses at multi activity centres – for example my strong preference for those considering the Safety Boat course is for people to attend multi activity centres as that is their real expertise.

Sailing clubs can run very good courses but will generally only very occasionally run powerboat courses and like anything in life those doing something on a daily basis will tend to have evolved a very structured, professional, effective and proven way of delivering a course from the syllabus.

Each have their own areas of expertise and it depends what you want to achieve.

I don’t know Safewater personally but know that they have been around for many years which is never a bad thing .

Hope that helps

Regards, Paul

[thestig1973]

Originally Posted by Paul Glatzel

I forget where I read this quote recently and who said it but it is pretty spot on:

“Price is what you pay, value is what you get”

As you have identified there are lots of schools around and there is a wide difference in prices. Whilst the qualification is ultimately the same I would venture to suggest that there is often (but not always) a real difference between centres whose core activity is training people on powerboats versus those who are multi activity centres or are sailing clubs. Things to consider:

- The craft you will use. Professional powerboat schools will tend to run larger, newer, more highly specced craft than sailing clubs and multi activity centres
- The instructors will most likely be absolute specialists in powerboats rather than their core expertise being dinghies or other craft with the powerboat sector being an add on

I appreciate that this sounds like a sales spiel for a professional powerboat school but there are real benefits for some courses at multi activity centres – for example my strong preference for those considering the Safety Boat course is for people to attend multi activity centres as that is their real expertise.

Sailing clubs can run very good courses but will generally only very occasionally run powerboat courses and like anything in life those doing something on a daily basis will tend to have evolved a very structured, professional, effective and proven way of delivering a course from the syllabus.

Each have their own areas of expertise and it depends what you want to achieve.

I don’t know Safewater personally but know that they have been around for many years which is never a bad thing .

Hope that helps

Regards, Paul

Thanks Paul, I love the price/value quote :-)

All things considered, safewater seem to offer a full range of RYA courses, they have an excellent reputation, and they use decent ribs and equipment

They obviously are a well regarded training school, I think I've talked myself into spending the extra cash and going to safewater

Thanks to everyone for the advice :-)

[Chris Caton]

West Kirby is a sailing school, mainly doing dingy's, sail boards etc, the PB training is an fairly recent addition, but they are very professional. Safewater have been there for more than 10 years I know of, I did my level 2 & advanced with them, excellent set up and Mark is a fountain of knowledge, plus they have access to launching on the Mersey at almost any state of the tide right next to their centre

[thestig1973]

Thanks Chris

When I spoke to mark he told me if I book a course date it will definately take place

Wirral sailing did say its dependant on tides and if another person wants the same date (minimum 2 people on each course)

As I'm taking time off work I would waste holiday entitlement if it was cancelled

[Poly]

Originally Posted by thestig1973

Wirral sailing did say its dependant on tides and if another person wants the same date (minimum 2 people on each course

I'd be a bit worried about a sailing school that couldn't predict tides well in advance!

[thestig1973]

Originally Posted by Poly

I'd be a bit worried about a sailing school that couldn't predict tides well in advance!

They seemed less enthusiastic/interested to be honest...... All things considered its a no brainer

Just called mark at safewater to book the course but got the answering machine

[Chris Caton]

Originally Posted by thestig1973

They seemed less enthusiastic/interested to be honest...... All things considered its a no brainer

Just called mark at safewater to book the course but got the answering machine

just leave a message, they will get back to you

[thestig1973]

Originally Posted by Chris Caton

just leave a message, they will get back to you

They have just called..... Cheers Chris

[Chris Caton]

Originally Posted by thestig1973

They have just called..... Cheers Chris

Good, I'm sure you made a good choice

[whackywoody]

Liverpool Sailing Club is another option. I did my PB2 course there last year for £220 (I think) which included a years membership at the club which means you can use the club facilities all year round (boat storage and their own launch slipway which you can use). It is tide dependent but you the only time you can't launch is low tide but you could launch everyday of the year as the slipway is very long - when you join you also get a booklet/diary with tide times and heights for every day of the year.

Very good professional setup with a very new humber destoryer with Mercury 100HP 4 stroke for the course and you will also find that the class will be smaller than other schools meaning more driving time on the boat.

Another bonus is that its closer to you as its behind Liverpool Airport.

Speak to Phil Gambrill (see club website) or contact me and I should help you out if your interested

Gareth

[thestig1973]

Thanks Gareth


Phil called me earlier, agreed to show me round the club and gave me some info, I drove to have a look at Liverpool sailing club just before Christmas
Phill is a nice guy, it's definately an option, the only downside is he has no PB2 course availability until march (I've booked a week off work in February and was hoping to do it then)