RIB or full inflatable? - Page 2

shirehorse · 19 November 2007, 06:39

One small point for what its worth do take precautions against little furry creatures when storing in a shed they seem to love what inflatables are made of. I speak from experiance they have turned what was a new boat into a very secound hand patched up hopefully still inflatable

Black · 19 November 2007, 08:00

Hi,

Sorry Lordy missed your post - been down at our place in Slapton. Took the boat out from Salcombe while we were down there.

Well pleased with it, so thanks again to Pete at Blue Water Marine in Salcombe. I have to say again that it would be, in my eyes, useless without the launching wheels on the transom, and a decent electric pump. I got my pump from Ribshop on here.

On Saturday afternoon it was blowing what I guess was a F4 wind over tide out at the bar and my 380 XSHD coped admirably, of course it would have been more comfy in my old 5.5 metre Humber, but for convenience and price these little boats are sooooo much fun!!

Al

Lordy · 19 November 2007, 09:08

Thanks Al

Very envious - wish I'd been down in Salcombe this week-end!

Quick couple more questions, if I may? (Having not had a boat since I worked in Middle East many years ago, I'm all questions I'm afraid.)

Do you store the boat down there at all, or do you just deflate and re-inflate when you get down there? Does that take long?

And where do you launch from - I assume the car park at Batson Creek? The comment you make on transom wheels has got my attention.

Oh, and how far out of the harbour would you feel safe to venture? Would you go around to Hope Cove, or Bigbury, or even Slapton?

Thanks again Al,

Simon

BumbleAbout · 20 November 2007, 16:10

With a fairly flat sea (i.e. morning calm suitable for water skiing) we have been round from Salcombe to Hope Cove, Thurlestone, Bantham and Bigbury quite happily (2 adults + 2 children). This was in a Zodiac Futura 4.2m with a 50hp Yamaha. This is trailered and launched at Batson Creek.

In a 3m inflatable (no speed tubes) with a 5hp Tohatsu we found it hard work even crossing Starehole Bay with the children (then 5 & 9) since we were getting thrown about quite a lot. This was inflated (electric pump) at Batson Creek and walked down the slip with some home made ex golf trolley wheels - the whole package including outboard sat in the boot of an estate car with some room for clothes & food on top. This package was great whilst the children were smaller for beach hopping and getting to various pubs up creeks, but the Futura is better now they want to travel further and do some water skiing.

Black · 20 November 2007, 19:02

Simon,

Yes I keep the boat in a garage at our house. Recently I have been inflating at Batson and then popping it on the roof of my car and taking it back to rinse and dry before rolling up. In the season I can see myself leaving it inflated all summer and putting on the roof to head down to the water.

The wheels as Codprawn on here has said in the past are an absolute must, the package is truely useless with out them, yes you could use a trailer, but that defeats the object of an SIB, and what are you going to do when you want to pull it up the beach? I've tried to attach a couple of photos. I really wish that the traders would just add them to the package and reflect it in the price. As when you have a 48kg engine on the back of a 100kg boat you aren't going to be lifting it yourself!!

With regards to how far out, this weekend (and bear in mind my boat has an Ali floor) we went out to Stairhole Bay, it was bloody lumpy and with a friend we had a right laugh. We were fully togged up with lifejackets, and our grab bag with all the essentials in. I wouldn't have wanted to be out there in anything less sturdy than my boat.

Any other questions just ask - or PM me.

Best
Al

Lordy · 21 November 2007, 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by BumbleAbout

With a fairly flat sea (i.e. morning calm suitable for water skiing) we have been round from Salcombe to Hope Cove, Thurlestone, Bantham and Bigbury quite happily (2 adults + 2 children). This was in a Zodiac Futura 4.2m with a 50hp Yamaha. This is trailered and launched at Batson Creek.

In a 3m inflatable (no speed tubes) with a 5hp Tohatsu we found it hard work even crossing Starehole Bay with the children (then 5 & 9) since we were getting thrown about quite a lot. This was inflated (electric pump) at Batson Creek and walked down the slip with some home made ex golf trolley wheels - the whole package including outboard sat in the boot of an estate car with some room for clothes & food on top. This package was great whilst the children were smaller for beach hopping and getting to various pubs up creeks, but the Futura is better now they want to travel further and do some water skiing.

Thanks BA! I'm really starting to get a much clearer picture of what I need. Sounds like a 3.8m with a 20hp might be a bit under-specced. (My kids are 14, 12 and 10)

Quick couple of questions, if I may?

Do you keep your boat trailered at Batson Creek throughout the year?

And - forgive me for sounding stupid - what are speed tubes?

Many thanks again,

Simon

BumbleAbout · 22 November 2007, 08:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordy

Do you keep your boat trailered at Batson Creek throughout the year?

And - forgive me for sounding stupid - what are speed tubes?

Many thanks again,

Simon

Sadly we live in Buckingamshire (miles from the sea in every direction), so the Zodiac is towed down each time we visit Devon - but I do have some ideas for packing it in the back of the Land Rover (it's a bit heavy to lift with the outboard still bolted on). I had got used to taking the SIB out of the boot and inflating it, so I didn't really want to tow a trailer around - but actually it tows as if it isn't there, so it is not a problem.

Speed tubes are simply additional inflated tubes of about 6-8" diameter under the sponsons. They provide a catamaran effect (on the plane the whole boat rises up and only these tubes are in the water) and a tunnel effect where air is pushed into the tunnel between the two tubes to maintain lift.

The Zodiac has an shallow inflated v hull between the tubes (not quite sure why), but I think that the Gemini 470 design (just speed tubes) is better - if you search for Gemini in these forums, then prairie tuber has some photographs. The Zapcat/ Thundercat designs takes this further with a higher deck (bigger tunnel to scoop more air).

We seat 5 because I added a rear locker to house the battery and petrol tank with two cushons on the lid. This also gives a little security for mooring overnight at Whitestrand (petrol disconnected and battery isolated under a padlocked locker lid). You can buy additional bench seats from Zodiac, but it takes away the fun of building your own (and costs a small fortune) !

In the end, everything is a compromise, but our current needs are :-
- Travel up the creeks - Frogmore/ Southpool/ Kingsbridge or beaches around the Salcombe estuary (ria) with a very shallow draught
- be able to water ski/ ringo behind the boat
- travel round to Dartmouth/ Bantham/ Bigbury etc
- not take up too much space back at home (can be deflated and stored in 2 bags in the garage if necessary)

If we wanted to travel further in rougher conditions, then a RIB would be the best choice.

Lordy · 22 November 2007, 09:26

Thanks again BA - it's remarkably reassuring to hear you refer to the exact places I want to use the boat. And your needs are exactly the same as mine. I'll keep an eye out for you at Whitestrand next summer!

Also very pleased to hear you can make it around to Dartmouth. We all like the beach at Blackpool Sands, so sounds like we'd be able to motor around there in a boat. How long does that sort of journey take?

And very interesting to hear about the speed tubes. I have been in touch with prairie tuber and seen his photos. Now I understand better. But are these a unique patent to Zodiac? I can't remember having seen them on any other boats I've looked at, though I have seen the Zapcats. A bit too racey, methinks!

The rear locker also answered a question I had about electric start outboards. which I assume you have. My carpentry skills, however, leave much to be desired!!

Thanks again BA!!

Lordy · 22 November 2007, 09:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black

Simon,

Yes I keep the boat in a garage at our house. Recently I have been inflating at Batson and then popping it on the roof of my car and taking it back to rinse and dry before rolling up. In the season I can see myself leaving it inflated all summer and putting on the roof to head down to the water.

The wheels as Codprawn on here has said in the past are an absolute must, the package is truely useless with out them, yes you could use a trailer, but that defeats the object of an SIB, and what are you going to do when you want to pull it up the beach? I've tried to attach a couple of photos. I really wish that the traders would just add them to the package and reflect it in the price. As when you have a 48kg engine on the back of a 100kg boat you aren't going to be lifting it yourself!!

With regards to how far out, this weekend (and bear in mind my boat has an Ali floor) we went out to Stairhole Bay, it was bloody lumpy and with a friend we had a right laugh. We were fully togged up with lifejackets, and our grab bag with all the essentials in. I wouldn't have wanted to be out there in anything less sturdy than my boat.

Any other questions just ask - or PM me.

Best
Al

Thanks again Al.

I hadn't thought about putting it on the roof, but as I live in town I drive a small car (Golf) so that may restrict length of boat I chose.

Great pictures of the wheels, btw. You make a very good point about weight, so I think they'll be the first little extra I'll buy...though probably not the last!

Have been talking with a few Zodiac owners and it sounds like they are pretty sturdy boats. BumbleAbout has even been around to Dartmouth from Salcombe, though probably not in the middle of winter. How far have you got in the Summer? I had been shifting my sights below 4m/30hp, but it sounds like that's what I'd need to get about without it becoming too lumpy. Good to hear that you're getting the boat out in the middle of winter though - you're a braver man than me!!

Black · 22 November 2007, 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordy

Thanks again Al.

I hadn't thought about putting it on the roof, but as I live in town I drive a small car (Golf) so that may restrict length of boat I chose.

Great pictures of the wheels, btw. You make a very good point about weight, so I think they'll be the first little extra I'll buy...though probably not the last!

Have been talking with a few Zodiac owners and it sounds like they are pretty sturdy boats. BumbleAbout has even been around to Dartmouth from Salcombe, though probably not in the middle of winter. How far have you got in the Summer? I had been shifting my sights below 4m/30hp, but it sounds like that's what I'd need to get about without it becoming too lumpy. Good to hear that you're getting the boat out in the middle of winter though - you're a braver man than me!!

I only picked the boat up a couple of weeks ago, so haven't had the joys of summer boating yet. Can't wait for next year though!

Al

BumbleAbout · 23 November 2007, 09:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordy

Also very pleased to hear you can make it around to Dartmouth. We all like the beach at Blackpool Sands, so sounds like we'd be able to motor around there in a boat. How long does that sort of journey take?

From memory Dartmouth was about an hour on smooth water early in the morning and much longer coming back when choppier - although we tend to investigate beaches/ coves on the way rather than just hammering round.

Lordy · 23 November 2007, 11:37

Thanks again BA.

Another quick question, to all I suppose.

With a 50hp outboard, I assume your Zodiac has a jockey console?

Not quite sure why, but I prefer the idea of tiller steer. What's the maximum safest size outboard you could tiller steer with? And could you pull water-skiers from a tiller-steered boat?

Thanks.

BumbleAbout · 23 November 2007, 13:22

Finally found a picture of the speed tubes : http://www.zodiacmarine.com/img/cach...HD-pic-310.jpg

We have this sort of bench seating : http://www.zodiacmarine.com/uk/the-z....cfm?id=futura (picture 7 of 8). Not as good as jockey seats (for absorbing bumps) but a good feeling of safety sitting between the tubes. You might just squeeze a 4 in a line jokey seat plus console in a 4.2m Futura, but it might affect the balance - I have never seen one.

Unless you are going to add steering dampers (as used on Zapcats) and have arms like Popeye, I'm not sure you would want tiller steer on a 50hp (or probably anything over 30hp). I find that if solo, I need to be fairly well forward in the boat to balance the weight of engine and fuel at the back (my only regret is that the outboard trim is manual).

I suspect that you would struggle under 50hp to comfortably pull a loaded boat (2 adults and a couple of children) plus an adult water skier - hordes of friends and children usually appear when you menition waterskiing ...

Trickdog · 23 November 2007, 15:23

Just thought I would offer my opinion, as I have a 4.3m SIB with aluminium floor.

Like you I had a preference for tiller steering, mainly to keep as much usable free space as possible within the boat. As I wanted to get decent performance I opted for a 30hp 2 stroke, which is the maximum that the boat can take. I certainly would not want to use anything over 30hp without console steering though. It takes a lot of effort to hold the boat straight at speed (I previously had a 20hp and the difference is VERY noticeable) and I find myself having to slow down frequently to rest my arm. I am sure the boat/motor combination would be capable of pulling a skier but I have not tried it. I expect it would be even more tiring trying to hold the boat straight with a skier on the back.

I guess it's a trade off that only you can make the decision on. Have tiller steer and keep the boat open for passengers and gear... Or go for some sort of steering rig to make handling the boat at speed that much easier.

Lordy · 23 November 2007, 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trickdog

Just thought I would offer my opinion, as I have a 4.3m SIB with aluminium floor.

Like you I had a preference for tiller steering, mainly to keep as much usable free space as possible within the boat. As I wanted to get decent performance I opted for a 30hp 2 stroke, which is the maximum that the boat can take. I certainly would not want to use anything over 30hp without console steering though. It takes a lot of effort to hold the boat straight at speed (I previously had a 20hp and the difference is VERY noticeable) and I find myself having to slow down frequently to rest my arm. I am sure the boat/motor combination would be capable of pulling a skier but I have not tried it. I expect it would be even more tiring trying to hold the boat straight with a skier on the back.

I guess it's a trade off that only you can make the decision on. Have tiller steer and keep the boat open for passengers and gear... Or go for some sort of steering rig to make handling the boat at speed that much easier.

Thanks TrickDog

The tiller steering preference was also driven by having a family of 5, which can generate paraphernalia to take on board like nobody's business!!

When you say there is a noticeable difference between 20 and 30hp, is that in speed as well as manageability?

What seems to be slowly dawning on me is that I need 2 boats!! A smaller/less powerful one that I can tiller steer, for messing around in the estuary, dropping the family off at the beach and maybe pulling the odd inflatable.

And a bigger, jockey style inflatable to go a bit further afield along the coastline to other beaches, when it's not too choppy.

Decisions, decisions!!!

Lordy · 23 November 2007, 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by BumbleAbout

Unless you are going to add steering dampers (as used on Zapcats) and have arms like Popeye, I'm not sure you would want tiller steer on a 50hp (or probably anything over 30hp)...

...I suspect that you would struggle under 50hp to comfortably pull a loaded boat (2 adults and a couple of children) plus an adult water skier - hordes of friends and children usually appear when you menition waterskiing ...

Thanks BA - my arms are more like Olive Oyl's, and from Trickdog's observations just now, it'll have to be a 30 or less.

So, that rules out water-skiing - which only I can do anyway - but hopefully would be enough to pull an inflateable?

As I'm veering towards perhaps a 3.8m, maybe I'll just have to drop the majority of the family off at a beach and take them out one at a time on the towable?

Thanks again BA!

Channel Ribs · 23 November 2007, 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordy

What seems to be slowly dawning on me is that I need 2 boats!! A smaller/less powerful one that I can tiller steer, for messing around in the estuary, dropping the family off at the beach and maybe pulling the odd inflatable.
And a bigger, jockey style inflatable to go a bit further afield along the coastline to other beaches, when it's not too choppy.

Why not a mid-sized inflatable with a small jockey console?

BTW You will find the 3.8 goes nicely with a 20. I can dig some figures out for you if you like?

Trickdog · 23 November 2007, 16:23

Lordy

I expect that a 20 or 25hp would be OK on a 3.8m SIB. The big difference I noticed with the 20hp was some difficulty getting the boat onto the plane when carrying a lot of weight (by that I mean 4 or 5 people... There was no problem with only 2 on board). With the 30hp the boat planes very easily even when carrying 6 people. I am definitely getting more speed out of the 30hp also but, as I mentioned, it takes some effort keeping the boat straight at full throttle.

I think the 30hp tiller steer was a good compromise. There is plenty of space for carrying people and gear to the beach, but also enough power to do some decent exploring trips around the coast. I am happy to lose a little manageability for all the extra space in the boat that tiller steering provides. And I still take the boat out on some long runs in fairly choppy conditions. A SIB jumps over waves rather than cutting through them, so you get shaken about a bit in rough water, but that would happen whether you had tiller steering or a console.

Trickdog · 23 November 2007, 16:47

By the way...

My boat came in two big holdalls. One containing the boat and the other the aluminium floor panels. The holdall for the floor panels is oblong shaped, exactly the same width as the boat floor, nearly 2m long and about 15cm deep. I had a piece of fairly dense foam cut to the same size which, zipped inside the holdall, makes a great mattress for sitting on in the bottom of the boat. Great fun tearing along through waves with so much cushioning under your passengers! And much safer than sitting on the tubes.

prairie tuber · 24 November 2007, 00:44

For a given outboard power and a given SIB length, an inflatable 'v' keel will require more 'strongarming' of the tiller to keep it tracking straight than a futura hull. A straight catamaran hull will require less still. If you are wondering about the differences in these hull designs, there is an expalanation of them here; http://www.rib.net/forum/showthread....&highlight=SIB . Also, when comparing different lengths of SIBs that have the same general hull design, the shorter the hull, the more effort you will have to put into the tiller to keep going straight.

For example, when I put my 40 hp outboard on my 4.2m zodiac SIB with an inflatable 'v' keel (which is it's max hp rating), it requires alot more effort to keep it straight than when that same outboard is on my 4.7 m Gemini with the catamaran hull (see picture below). This is because of both the difference hull length and the difference in hull design. With the 40 hp outboard on the Gemini, it takes minimal effort on the tiller to keep it going straight while on calm water, and moderate - substantial effort when going thorough strong or whirlpoooling currents such as below.