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Old 03 February 2008, 18:51   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lordy View Post
There was me believing the build quality on a Zodiac didn't come much better, certainly in the smaller RIB/SIB market.

Is it possible you just had a Friday afternoon special
It's possible my Cadet was a 'Friday afternoon special' as the Zodiac Futura I previously had was made very well in comparison. The Cadet managed to pick up 6 punctures in about 5 outings in various places under various conditions. I started to get a bit p*ssed off with repairing punctures as well as knowing that every repair was going to lower the resale value
It's a very light boat for it's size(36kg - 3.4mtrs) and I think this is partly due to the fabric being very thin and so not particularly tough, probably ok for light use but not for what I wanted.
There are a few reports of poor build quality of Zodiacs, a post by Floater here is one: http://rib.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14988&page=3

Nick; good idea to get both floor types, might be a bit expensive though

Lordy; the Bormbard is only available with an airdeck, it's a well specced boat though, albeit a little pricey

Although the QS was a very close contender I decided against it in the end as a couple of dealers I called said that don't get any demand for them anymore and I figured if I have to sell it on it may not be very easy to shift.

Ended up buying a Honda 3.2 airdeck yesterday from Advanced Marine in Portishead. He dropped the price to £790 which although slightly cheaper at Seamark Nunn I thought it would be easier to take it back if any problems arise.
Lets hope the Honda's build quality is better than the Zodiac Cadets
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Old 04 February 2008, 17:22   #22
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Had second thoughts this morning and decided to change my order for a Honda T38, the 3.8Mtr airdeck version. I thought for an extra 10kg I get over 1/2 mtr more boat

Looking at the specs and design it appears to be very similar to the Bombard Aerotec 380 except being a few kilos heavier and quite a bit cheaper (paid £865)

Nick, do you find your Aerotec goes ok with a 15hp even though it's rated for up to a 25hp?? Have you ever had it on the plane with 4 adults or if not, do you think it would be capable??

Has anybody here owned a T38 and if so what do you think of them?

Appreciate all the comments and advice BTW
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Old 04 February 2008, 18:06   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andyboy View Post
Had second thoughts this morning and decided to change my order for a Honda T38, the 3.8Mtr airdeck version. I thought for an extra 10kg I get over 1/2 mtr more boat

Looking at the specs and design it appears to be very similar to the Bombard Aerotec 380 except being a few kilos heavier and quite a bit cheaper (paid £865)

Nick, do you find your Aerotec goes ok with a 15hp even though it's rated for up to a 25hp?? Have you ever had it on the plane with 4 adults or if not, do you think it would be capable??

Has anybody here owned a T38 and if so what do you think of them?

Appreciate all the comments and advice BTW
Yes i had a 3.8 honda airdeck with a honda 20 .
I have been reading this thinking , why not buy the 3.8

I was impressed with the quality and the performance ,Its a deep V for a sib and seemed to handle and turn very well indeed .I think the extended floor at the rear is its advantage .
like all sibs it was very uncomfortable in a chop .
It did about 18mph on the gps with 3 people and some kit so yes it would plane with 4 people positioned evenly . It was best with 2 adults , and a bit scary with just me if it was rough or windy . probably go even better with the 2 stroke .
Get a transom tank as the normal tank strapped to the floor is a PITA and not nice to land on .
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Old 04 February 2008, 21:02   #24
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Totally second Ian's comments about the 3.8m.
I have one as well as the SR4.
The 3.8 handles well for a SIB and takes a bit of chop better than most.
I have a Yam 20hp 2 stroke on the back. It fair flies along with this on...
sits up a bit alarmingly for a few secs until it gets on the plane but then is no bother at all.
With a bit of chop running, the fuel tank will shift about no matter how hard I strap it down, and in a hard landing the seat will pop out of its holders...so now I leave that at home!
A transom fuel tank sounds like a good idea, especially if you have a few onboard and therefore no issues about weight distribution if you are running a heavy ob on the back.
Before the 20 hp Yam, I had a 15 hp Mariner 2 stroke.
It went well with this fitted, (but as this was before I had my SR4) I was always trying to coax a little more out of the 15 hp to satisfy my need for speed! I find the 20hp Yam gives it a little more oomph and mid range pick up.
The 3.8 feels nice and safe...big tubes...and as Ian says the hull V is quite pronounced and definitely makes it handle well.
I have my motor trimmed all the way in now and find its the best ride/handling setting when in the boat by myself.
Keep the floor air pressure right up and it feels as hard as a solid floor!

I trail the boat to and from slipway, so not actually suffering from the only complaint I hear about the Honwave 3.8 which is that because of the floor extension/trim tabs there is nowhere to attach dolly wheels etc to the transom. There was a post on here not so long ago about purpose designed
trolly wheels for the Honwave 3.8 but couldn't for the life of me see how the design would work effectively....if anyone has them fitted to their 3.8m let me know please?
For this summer I will take the 3.8 down to Cornwall and Devon as its a lot more tolerant of being run up on beaches than the SR4, and I am considering buying a folding launching trolley to get around the transom / dolly wheel thing as unsure where I will be launching/recovering.

I'm definitely a fan of the 3.8 ...you will have loads of fun in it

Andy
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Old 04 February 2008, 22:34   #25
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Hola Andyboy

You have made a nice size air deck/sib purchase choice, the only difference is that the air matt is a removable flat floor with a inflatable keel under and the Aerotec is a deep V keel integrated /glued floor to the boat's bottom. Was wondering if untied things tend to slip to the center of boat ?

General boaters poorly rates air floor models, the big complaint is that the floor is usually too soft compared to wood/alum traditional floors and will perform badly.

This is not quite true, it's virtually impossible to inflate an air floor to it's recommended working pressure 10 to 12 PSI depending on the sib’s manufacturer. With a foot pump you can hardly do about 3/4 PSI and that is with a heavy foot. A better inflation device is a hand/foot double action pump, will inflate slightly higher 5/6 PSI only if you have strong arms to push/pull the huge inflator’s piston.

An air matt floor/deep V floor are not tubes, are thick 10 cm high fabric with thousands of polyester threads criss-crossing one another in a reduced space that holds a tremendous amount of high pressure and must be inflated extremely well to achieve correct expected sib performance. If you like to plane/cruise but cannot fulfill this technical request, stay away from buying a inflatable floor sib would be my modest recommendation.

The best and more expensive option would be an electric 12 volts high pressure inflator to do the job well, a nice cheap option ( will need to make some conversions) is to modify a 12 V car tire inflator, put a longer air hose with a valve adapter to match the floor valve and a manometer, to control max inflation pressure. In minutes will have the floor inflated at the recommended manufacturer pressure. Don't forget to re inflate all tube chambers evenly, keel included to their working pressure once on water, 3 to 3.5 PSI and for God's sake, use a manometer !!

Used to inflate my Sea Rider 320 sib with inflatable matt floor up to 6 PSI with great exhausting effort using a double action pump, performed well, not excellent. Now that the tirepump is being used and the floor inflated to 11/12 PSI the performance as from before is outstanding. Now can plane with 2 adults evenly distributed using a Tohatsu 05 HP 2 stroke engine at 3/4 WOT.

Inflation Procedure for removable air floor decks: accommodate well the floor inside the sib, inflate floor to 1/3, spray a generous amount of soapy water all around the air floor border and sib’s bottom’s & contour side borders, proceed to inflate to correct working pressure (10-12 PSI) . The soapy water will help to expand and accommodate better the air floor at the boat’s bottom sides. In my particular case, my boat and floor remains inflated at all times, only re inflate chambers and floor to their working pressure minutes before launching to water every time it’s used.

Ask the dealer which is the working pressure of your deep V floor and inflate to the recommended pressure, the lighter weight sib preformance will be outstanding, and don't worry, won't blow the floor off...

Happy Boating
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Old 04 February 2008, 23:04   #26
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just to avoid confusion... the Honwave 3.8 has an integrated floor and keel, part of the boats structure and not a removable item!
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Old 05 February 2008, 03:28   #27
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Quote:
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it's virtually impossible to inflate an air floor to it's recommended working pressure 10 to 12 PSI depending on the sib’s manufacturer.
The pump that comes with the QS Airdeck makes easy enough work of getting the floor to the required 11 PSI. It's still a bit too floppy to be really good in anything but calm conditions - it's fine on a river, but anything else is hard work.

I still like the air floor concept, but the V floor as used on the Bombard and Honda SIBs looks like a better way to go.

John
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Old 05 February 2008, 05:23   #28
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Sounds like a great set up, you will have lots of fun!
Mine will plain with 4 up but it dose dent its performance, we are normally me & the wife + 3 kids 10, 7 & 5 years old + beach kit & picnic & we can get on the plain OK!
I do not use the 24lt tank it came with but a 12lt that straps nicely to the transom!
I use a pressure gauge & a 3 stage foot pump (it has stages of pressure!) No way could I get the floor up to pressure with a normal foot pump the tubes are 3.4psi but the floor is 11.3psi which is rock hard & this forms the V not some blow up tube like you get with a hard floor!
Also because you have a floor making the v hull you get more depth in side the boat so you can sit inside at the bow with better protection & sitting on the tubes or the seat which has 4 bolts holding it in, your feet are deeper in the boat & your knees are not around you ears!
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Old 05 February 2008, 05:59   #29
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Superb post Locozodiac!!

Many thanks for taking the time to go in to so much detail and post pictures and everything
I've had 3 airdeck sibs in the past but still learnt a few things from reading your post.
The idea to use a car tyre inflator is great
I already use a 12v powerpack with a cheapo airbed inflator for the bulk of the inflation and it conveniently has a 12v high pressure pump built in to it - can't believe I've not thought of using that myself!

How did you connect the high pressure tube to the airfloor adaptor, it looks like you might have used duct tape or something similar to make the join, is that the case or have you used something else? Thatís the only obstacle I might have problems overcoming.

I agree that the proper high pressure pump would be better but considering they're £100 this method seems like a reasonable compromise

Glad to hear the positive reports from other T38 owners, thanks for the comments guys - Iím looking forward to her first outing now

Mustrib, here's a link to the transom wheels for the Honda's: http://www.seamarknunn.com/catalog/items/item18616.htm

£145 delivered is the cheapest I've found. Not sure they would be much use on a steep pebble beach though
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Old 05 February 2008, 16:31   #30
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How did you connect the high pressure tube to the airfloor adaptor, it looks like you might have used duct tape or something similar to make the join, is that the case or have you used something else? That’s the only obstacle I might have problems overcoming.

I agree that the proper high pressure pump would be better but considering they're £100 this method seems like a reasonable compromise
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hola Andyboy

If my sib experience is helpful to others, then welcome to the same club. Answering your question, have made in a revolver machine a hard plastic adapter to match my Halkey Roberts Air Valves, has a plastic screw in the middle with a 2 mm hole, when inserted to the air valve, the screw pushes the valve central pin to stay open 1 mm and help the air pump to run smoother and perform better. It's a very precise adapter. Have imported spare HR valves so it's very simple to machine shop them exactly with the valve at hand, final touch is made with fine metal sanding paper to go for the exact circumference state of art air tightnes. See attached pics.

If using the cheapo car tire inflator system do not read with the internal high pressure manometer some infaltors have, the reading is way to high and in very low psi readings will not be exact, better use a max 1.0 Bar/14 PSI hand manometer for the final reading. When infalting the lecture will be kind of erratic, because of air pulses and the reading needle can vary left/right up to 1/2 psi, once reaching correct presure disconnect the 12V power, will have a correct stable reading. Connect again until you obtain the high pressure you are looking for and so on...

It's nice to hear that you & Nick uses pressure gauges to inflate your sibs to their correct working pressures, seems that most Ribnet users don't care about manufacturer's standard inflation procedures and will ever use a manometer; anyway...

Happy Boating
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