Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 
Old 31 July 2019, 07:17   #1
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Belper
Make: Excel
Length: 3m +
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 19
New to boating - which outboard

Hi everyone, I have just purchased my first SIB, and Excel Vanguard XHD335.

Intended use is mostly on the river Trent around Nottingham and maybe Norfolk broads, some trips to the coast with my partner and 2 children, aged 4 and 2; maybe 3 times a year.

I'm undecided on which outboard would suit me best, I want to buy new. I have been thinking about a Suzuki 6hp as I have been told these weight the same as the 4hp and 5hp models. This should be good for the rivers but would it be lacking on the sea?

What kind of speeds would I get from a 2.5hp on the rivers? I could get a 2.5hp now for the Trent and save up for a 10hp for the sea later on?


Any suggestions or advice would be appreciated, thank you.
__________________

__________________
tom534 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31 July 2019, 08:13   #2
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: East Anglia
Boat name: Nimrod II
Make: Aerotec 380
Length: 3m +
Engine: Yamaha 15Hp 2-stroke
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,035
Hi Tom and welcome to the forum.

That Excel SIB should suit your two adults plus two smaller children need fine.

The outboard will need careful thought particularly if buying new to avoid making the wrong choice and losing money changing... compared with buying used with a decent deal mostly you can sell on at broadly what you paid. I assume you are thinking new for reliability and not looking round at used "rubbish"?

Very roughly speaking there is a doubling of price points to the three OBs you mention. 2.5hp £500... 6hp £1000... 9.9hp £2000.

I assume you are thinking of the non-tidal stretches of the Trent? Assuming so it is true a 2.5hp will probably push you up to river speed say around 4-5kts. Having said that for a sub 3.6m inflatable I always preferred a 4hp even for river use... which then leads onto might as well just get the 6hp you mention. That would be entirely suitable for rivers, tidal rivers and estuary use. However 6hp isn't really enough if you hope it will plane on the sea with the family and kit. For that the 10hp you mentioned would be far better.

If you are new to boating I'm not sure you'll want the responsibility of a 2 and 4 year old on the open sea anyway?

I assume you will be daily setting up and not using a trailer... if so outboard weight is important... particularly as I guess your partner will be keeping an eye on the children rather than being a dedicated helper for you.

That Suzuki 6hp is a very manageable 23.5kg but step up to the 9.9hp and you go to 39kg and far more bulky size... trust me that extra 15.5kg needs more thought re handling from the car and on slipways/beaches etc. Moving an outboard is nothing to do with the actual weight you can lift because they are awkward and top heavy.

Do you have transom wheels yet?

Anyway that's some random stuff to get you thinking more about your specific needs.

David
__________________

__________________
Fenlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31 July 2019, 09:20   #3
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Belper
Make: Excel
Length: 3m +
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 19
Thanks for the reply!

I think I will go for the 6HP - it will be fine I'm sure.

Yea, thinking about it, I would probably leave the missus with the kids and go out for a cruise on my own when at the sea.

Nearly all the time will be spent on the rivers or lakes, most seem to have low speed limits too.

I am planning on getting a towbar and trailer - its actually quite big folded and I'm finding it tricky to set up when I tried in my garden. I will use it more if I just leave it set up I think.

No don't have transom wheels. Any recommendations?

Planning on going for my first ride out on Monday, just need to get a river license and insurance sorted first.

Any suggestions for insurance? It is a requirement of Sawley Marina where I plan to launch.
__________________
tom534 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31 July 2019, 09:30   #4
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: East Anglia
Boat name: Nimrod II
Make: Aerotec 380
Length: 3m +
Engine: Yamaha 15Hp 2-stroke
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,035
Easiest and very popular on here are Craftinsure online. About £50 and no complex forms, docs emailed straight to you.
__________________
Fenlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31 July 2019, 09:38   #5
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Belper
Make: Excel
Length: 3m +
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 19
Thanks, will get that sorted.
__________________
tom534 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31 July 2019, 10:37   #6
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: East Anglia
Boat name: Nimrod II
Make: Aerotec 380
Length: 3m +
Engine: Yamaha 15Hp 2-stroke
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,035
I think the 6hp will do you fine and if you get into the hobby, and as the kids grow, then in a few years you might think of going to a 10hp or 15hp.

One up I'm sure you can have some fun on the plane and while it's unpredictable what any particular SIB/OB combo will do here are two guys with a 6hp on a 3.3m inflatable having no trouble getting along nicely.



Yes alloy floor models can be a fiddle to set up but it does get easier with practice... but never a two min job.

Re transom wheels there's a huge selection and many folks get on OK with their chosen varying brands. But will you need them if you have a trailer... most have one or the other but some folks use a combination so they don't need to put the trailer in the water.

Anyway if you decided you wanted them there are two basic choices. Do you want them to stay on the boat all the time for use perhaps at a destination... if so you'll need the flip up type and my favourites are the Trem brand. The 150kg capacity ones on offet at £109.99 are a good buy...

https://www.gaelforcemarine.co.uk/en...ls/m-3580.aspx

After trying both types over several years and to suit our use we use the detachable type made by Zodiac. They do two models both quite expensive but very strong and keep the outboard well off the ground. These would suit your outfit......

http://www.ronhalemarine.co.uk/super...unch_Wheel_Kit
__________________
Fenlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31 July 2019, 11:44   #7
Member
 
chipko's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Up North and right a bit
Make: XS500/Bic245
Length: 5m +
Engine: Mariner60/3.5 Hon2.3
MMSI: 239711398
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 479
New to boating - which outboard

Hi Tom,

All good advice from Fenlander as usual.

By chance took our sib on the Trent for the first time a few weeks ago...had a great time.
We’re very local to yourself and launched from Farndon Marina slipway (£15) just south of Newark. Chose this as looked a decent run between locks.

The Suzuki 6hp is a fine motor, and a good choice.

Just as an aside I took our little Mariner 3.5 and amazingly flat out it managed a cheeky 8mph upstream, and 10.5mph downstream. All on non tidal sections and lightly loaded one up.
__________________
chipko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31 July 2019, 16:58   #8
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Nottinghamshire
Make: Mercury Ocean Runner
Length: 4m +
Engine: Mercury F40 EFI
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 259
This may not be for everyone, but I would (and recently did) purchase nearly new and get a bigger engine for the same outlay and probably still with warranty. For your size boat I'd be wanting something that can get you on the plane, not necessarily for the Trent (although there are a couple of fast sections) but to overcome tidal estuaries. I encountered the one at Mudeford, Christchurch a few weeks where the outflow must have been 5 or 6 knots and I was actually on the plane yet moving against it within the 4 knot harbour speed limit! Being on the plane brings fuel efficiency as you are not dragging a load of water behind you, when you get up you can back off on the throttle without dropping off the plane. You could consider bolting a hydrofoil on the engine to get you on the plane at a lower speed maybe?

I've enjoyed launching in various sections of the Trent including Sawley and West Stockwith but find that our favourite place is Hazleford and best of all it's free and you don't have the pressure to get back before the Marina closes. Get a British Waterways key because the river lock keepers go home at 5pm and you'll need a winding handle for the canal locks which are not manned.

Regarding launch wheels don't be tempted to cut costs but go for the largest diameter possible e.g. 12" as others will be hard going in soft sand and over stones.
__________________
Limecc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01 August 2019, 06:39   #9
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Belper
Make: Excel
Length: 3m +
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 19
Thanks for all the replies, really helpful information; appreciate it!

Hopefully will sell the car this weekend and then will use the funds for the outboard, tow bar, trailer and some wheels!

I live in Belper, are there any other places to launch close to me other than sawley on the trent?

Is there much difference between brands when choosing an outboard, I mentioned Suzuki because the place in Ilkeston I got the boat from stocked them. Any better options for 6hp?

Thanks
__________________
tom534 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01 August 2019, 06:59   #10
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Nottinghamshire
Make: Mercury Ocean Runner
Length: 4m +
Engine: Mercury F40 EFI
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom534 View Post
I live in Belper, are there any other places to launch close to me other than sawley on the trent?
Thanks
Belper River Gardens on the Derwent? I launched our Sevylor canoe there and some friends hired a council rowboat.

More seriously another location is Shardlow Marina, same price and opening times as Sawley. Good clubhouse with regular live music.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20190331_165258-1024x576.jpg
Views:	45
Size:	177.3 KB
ID:	130295   Click image for larger version

Name:	20190331_Shardlow4-1024x576[1].jpg
Views:	49
Size:	140.6 KB
ID:	130296  
__________________
Limecc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01 August 2019, 07:11   #11
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Belper
Make: Excel
Length: 3m +
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 19
Thank Limecc, will have a look at Shardlow. Yes, I've spent a lot of time kayaking that stretch of the Derwent.

I guess I will need to start practicing reversing with a trailer or just carry down the slip.
__________________
tom534 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01 August 2019, 07:20   #12
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Nottinghamshire
Make: Mercury Ocean Runner
Length: 4m +
Engine: Mercury F40 EFI
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 259
You could also launch for free at Torksey Lock if you are not using a trailer and take the wide canal all the way to Lincoln or else explore that section of the Trent. West Stockwith is free if they don't have to release the chain across the slipway. Your boat (with transom wheels) would go under it if you lift it up.

It's free to launch at Beeston Marina if they don't have to move the swing bridge for a car. They are main dealers for Mercury/Johnson/Evinrude and are highly recommended for your servicing. Sawley are affiliated with Honda and are more expensive to use. I was not thrilled with the prospect of going to Excel at Sutton Coldfield to get my Suzuki engine serviced so I had it done on holiday in Salcombe.

A good local dealer would be a major factor in the brand of engine I would buy.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20190330_Beeston_Marina-1024x576[1].jpg
Views:	49
Size:	146.7 KB
ID:	130297  
__________________
Limecc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01 August 2019, 07:39   #13
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Belper
Make: Excel
Length: 3m +
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 19
Thanks again, will give it a try. Any suggestions on where to buy the outboard from? Thanks
__________________
tom534 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01 August 2019, 07:48   #14
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Nottinghamshire
Make: Mercury Ocean Runner
Length: 4m +
Engine: Mercury F40 EFI
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom534 View Post
Thanks again, will give it a try. Any suggestions on where to buy the outboard from? Thanks
Secondhand as an example I found my 3 month old (never fitted) Mercury F40 on Gumtree saving £1,200 and there is an identical 2014 one, again never fitted that is on Gumtree at the moment even cheaper but without warranty. I sold my Suzuki 20 on Gumtree with just 20 hours use, four years warranty and it didn't take long to sell. I therefore say try Ebay or Gumtree, use caution and due diligence to avoid scammers, never buy without seeing it run, and the warranty will take care of problems that arise if you get something with FSH and is less than 5 yrs old. Alternatively Fenlander did really well finding his old but light 15hp 2-stroke. They are still available but becoming harder to find.

If buying new with the exception of Honda (and Yamaha?), all the smaller outboards are made by Tohatsu and rebadged so there's little to differentiate other than price and local dealer
__________________
Limecc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01 August 2019, 09:23   #15
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Belper
Make: Excel
Length: 3m +
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 19
any benefits to paying more for a honda?
__________________
tom534 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01 August 2019, 10:01   #16
Member
 
chipko's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Up North and right a bit
Make: XS500/Bic245
Length: 5m +
Engine: Mariner60/3.5 Hon2.3
MMSI: 239711398
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 479
New to boating - which outboard

In my opinion there’s nothing to choose between any of the big six makes in terms of reliability or quality. We all have our favourites, but in all honesty choose on the basis of best price/like the look of/colour/nearest servicing dealer etc.

The Yam is probably marginally the quietest, the Suzy can be laid/transported on either of three sides, and the Tohatsu has 7 years warranty.

PS: The Merc/Mariner/Tohatsu are all the same motor and made by Tohatsu.
__________________
chipko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01 August 2019, 10:35   #17
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: East Anglia
Boat name: Nimrod II
Make: Aerotec 380
Length: 3m +
Engine: Yamaha 15Hp 2-stroke
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,035
As Chipko says all the major brands are likely to be as reliable as each other.

So as he says choice down to price, dealer location, colour etc.... plus I'd add... any make specific feature that appeals.

I think the Merc/Mariners have front mounted gearchanges for example but others may not have... if that matters to you. Being able to store/transport in three ways is very useful and I think you can do this with the Yamaha as well as the Suzuki.

Tohatsu is the only one with a 7yr warranty compared to 5yrs for the others... but even 5yrs dealer servicing to keep the warranty up is expensive and over the top for such a basic engine/device.... in my opinion.

The Tohatsu/Merc/Mariner have the smallest capacity engines at 123cc... the Yamaha the largest at 139cc.

The Tohatsu/Merc/Mariner/Suzuki all weigh about 25kg or a bit less. The Yamaha and Honda are 27kg.

The Tohatsu/Merc/Mariner all have thro-hub exhausts which is a more grown up system than the other makes which exhaust above the prop.

Pricewise with a quick look Suzuki/Yamaha/Honda all seemed to be around £1100.... Tohatsu £1000... Merc/Mariner I saw at £911.

Once you sort a shortlist I'd try and get a look at the motors because in the flesh there may be aspects you do/don't like.

Have a look at this group 5hp test from 2014. As you've worked out the 6hp OBs are versions of the 5hp models and there may be detail changes but I think they broadly represent what you might find if buying a 2019 model.



Regarding new vs used... as an example this just run in and a year old looking mint for a £350 saving over new...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-F6...p2047675.l2557

Whichever motor you get make sure they have connection for it then budget for a 12l aux tank and fuel line.... topping up from cans in a family use SIB isn't ideal when on a longer day out.
__________________
Fenlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01 August 2019, 11:06   #18
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Belper
Make: Excel
Length: 3m +
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 19
Thanks Fenlander, awesome info!

I had noticed the Yamaha and Suzuki have a larger capacity - would this result in more torque or a deeper sound perhaps?
__________________
tom534 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01 August 2019, 11:33   #19
Member
 
Locozodiac's Avatar
 
Country: Other
Town: Lima-Peru
Boat name: Nautile
Make: Sea Rider 450 Rib
Length: 4m +
Engine: Tohatsu 5/18/30 HP
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,860
If you like boating it's a bad investment going for a under powered motor say a 3.5-5 HP to
power a 3.3 Mt Sib. Will only work well lightly loaded, probably won't plane if extremely loaded, will achieve just fast displacement boring speed. If possible to find go for at least a 2 strokes 9.8 HP motor, Tohatsu/Merc/Mariner brand, all 3 are same 123 CC and same exact weight. It's the lightest in its class in the portable range.

A smaller lenght Sib with 4 up running with a under powered motor will be harder to plane than same HP motorpowering a much larger size Sib due to dealing with more hull drag issue achieved on the shorter one.

With a 9.8 will have more water fun than with any 6 or 8 HP ones of same CC. If you haven't purchased any motor yet look for them, won't be disappointed. A much better and wiser investment till making your mind going for a larger ideal 15 HP motor for that 3.30 size Sib.

Happy Boating
__________________
Locozodiac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01 August 2019, 11:48   #20
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: East Anglia
Boat name: Nimrod II
Make: Aerotec 380
Length: 3m +
Engine: Yamaha 15Hp 2-stroke
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,035
>>>bad investment going for a under powered motor say a 3.5-5 HP to
power a 3.3 Mt Sib. Will only work well lightly loaded, probably won't plane if extremely loaded, will achieve just fast displacement boring speed.

If you read the OPs needs and family use a 6hp will get him a great start into boating and I think that is the minimum he's considering. He may choose to upgrade to anything in the future... 10hp... 15hp... RIB with 40hp... cabin cruiser... who knows... we all need a start on the water** to decide what we really want from this hobby.

**Particularly with children aged 2&4 where wave jumping at sea will not be a priority.

I think Tom on that YouTube they commented the Yamaha was better for the large capacity... and Chipko has commented it is marginally the quietest. I know my Yamaha 2-stroke is quieter than the same size Mercury... not much to do with anything though.

To be fair to him what Loco is advising is a fair call... a 9.8hp 2-stroke Tohatsu which have not been legally sold here since 2007 but were always said to be the holy grail of the 10hp range as they only weigh 26kg compared to 36-40kg of other makes 2-stroke 9.9/10hp motors back in the day. I've had one and it was for me an excellent easy to move motor. They can be bought still from some sellers if you are minded that way to declare your use is commercial. They are expensive for what they are though at £1800 and fetch high used prices... probably as much for a 14yr old one as a new 6hp.
__________________

__________________
Fenlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
outboard

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:47.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×