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Old 27 June 2015, 07:17   #1
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Life expectancy of SIB?

I have a Zodiac 285s solid floor SIB bought in 2009.

When l bought the boat l was told that they "are designed to last ten years" and l wondered if there was any truth in this.

The boat is used regularly but has to be stowed in its bag between uses. I always dry it before stowing, or if that's not possible l do it when l get home.

After seven seasons it still looks like new. The floor sections are all fine and there is no visible deterioration of the wooden transom. How long do these PVC boats usually last if looked after?
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Old 27 June 2015, 07:32   #2
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How long is a piece of string.

If you look at your average yacht tender plenty of them are 10years plus. They probably don't get the care yours does, but I suspect folding up does harm, but on the other hand drying it and not storing it upside down on the foredeck probably helps. On the other hand most yacht tenders will never have planed, will do 300m and stop rather than 15knts through waves etc.

Hypalon is less prone to UV damage than PVC, but you are only causing UV damage when out so minimised anyway.

Its a bit like a car - my Dad's car does 10k a year. Is washed once a week and waxed once a month. Hoovered once a month. Serviced religiously to the service schedule. Mine does 20k, the inside looks like a moving rubbish bin, on the outside I'm testing to see if never washing road salt and grime off will act like an additional layer of paint and provided I service it within about 7k of when the service due warning light came on things are pretty much normal for me... Who's do you think will last longer? My Dad's may last more years but will mine do more miles? But if I treated mine like my Dad's would it last as many years...

As you say 7 years and looks like new. I suspect you will get another 7 years from it... ...and even then someone on ebay will buy it...

But at some stage glues etc weaken with age as well as stresses and UV etc.
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Old 27 June 2015, 07:53   #3
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In my part of the world anything left in the sun soon becomes damaged, in summer my car wiper blades last 1 month. Im keeping my Zodiac out of the sun as much as possible, I believe there are boat wash shampoos which provide uv protection which I will look into.

Jon
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Old 27 June 2015, 11:06   #4
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I've two PVC SIBs at the moment having just bought the old Aerotec and they might add thoughts on longevity...

My 340 Acti-V Zodiac is 11yrs old and a in typical amazing condition so often found with an occasional use leisure use SIB. Super cosmetic condition with no signs of any glue/seam problem to worry about yet but I'm aware issue could arise so have a good pull at the seams/fittings every time I inflate. This has spent most of its life packed in its bag. I think any perceived downside to them being folded (and I've never seen this cause an actual problem) is massively outweighed by the benefits of having them dry stored away from UV and the elements.

The Aerotec is 17yrs old. It has been a tender and used on davits for some of its past life and this has massively increased its exposure to wear and tear plus UV. The fabric itself is unaffected but as well as a few patches there are signs of previous glue repairs plus there are some more bits I'll catch over the next year or so to keep it sound. I have the patience to make these repairs to a decent standard so it will last many more years yet. Like many Zodiacs the tubes have welded seams so they should last a long time and the transom is sound so even if it does need further repairs it will be worth doing.

Of course if you think DIY repairing glued seams is not for you then keeping a PVC SIB beyond 10yrs will always be a gamble.

But in the scheme of life not much of a gamble. If you buy a new Zodiac Cadet around £1200 for the usual gentle leisure use and keep it 12yrs even if it does show some sign of glue issues it will probably still make £200 on Ebay. So that's cost about £80/yr which to me is absolute peanuts for the fun you have over the years.

As long as you don't pay 2yr old money for a 12yr old SIB the same value will work out for a used one at any price/age point.

Moving away from PVC I've owned several Hypalon Avon and Zodiac SIBs in the past and these will last a staggering amount of time unless neglected... 40+yrs is quite common.
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Old 27 June 2015, 15:12   #5
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I've seen a large number of 20 - 40 year old SIBs being used for diving in California. I'd say the 10 year statement is pretty conservative.

JonP: If you get info on the UV inhibiting shampoo, I'd like to hear about it.

jky
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Old 27 June 2015, 17:05   #6
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Just bought a Mercury SIB HD PVC welded seams they are giving 5 year garantee not sure what type of material tornado boats are made of it looked like PVC but they last years
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Old 28 June 2015, 01:41   #7
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Originally Posted by jyasaki View Post
I've seen a large number of 20 - 40 year old SIBs being used for diving in California. I'd say the 10 year statement is pretty conservative.

JonP: If you get info on the UV inhibiting shampoo, I'd like to hear about it.

jky
It seems this 303 stuff gets recommended quite highly http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp...293&id=2656517

http://www.aristocraft.webpixel.com....t/maintenance/

Jon
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Old 28 June 2015, 07:03   #8
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Its a bit like a car - my Dad's car does 10k a year. Is washed once a week and waxed once a month. Hoovered once a month. Serviced religiously to the service schedule. Mine does 20k, the inside looks like a moving rubbish bin, on the outside I'm testing to see if never washing road salt and grime off will act like an additional layer of paint and provided I service it within about 7k of when the service due warning light came on things are pretty much normal for me... Who's do you think will last longer? My Dad's may last more years but will mine do more miles? But if I treated mine like my Dad's would it last as many years...
Interesting analogy. Think I'll buy your dad's car instead.

I'd expect to see a Zodiac achieve 20 years+. I've a 1986 Zodiac MKIIC GT that's still going strong, but is no longer in use. The seams under the rowlocks failed, but I have since repaired. The end cones went too. Again, another repair. Lost count how many times I repaired the pennant on the bow or re-varnished the oars. The inflatable keel failed, again not a big repair.

The lifespan of the boat will very much depend on how it's being used, and how often. Keeping the boat at the right operating pressure stresses the material over time, as does increases in temperature and UV light.

I'm sure deflating and rolling up stresses transom points, etc. When I used to pack the Zodiac away I found large quantities of sand under the aluminium floorboards from our regular trips to the beach. Over time it's abrasive and works into the seams. There is an argument for removing the floor and getting it clean occasionally.

Enjoy it and use it. If it breaks, then simply fix it.
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Old 28 June 2015, 21:14   #9
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The big killer of sibs is sun and mice.

If the boat is kept protected from the sun. the PVC on a Zodiac should easily last 30 or 40 years. The seams are welded and should last just as long, the glue on the other hand is a problem.

For some reason, Zodiac glue turns to pritt stick after about 10 years, although some boats last much longer. most dont.

And the mice ? They love rolled up Zodiac sibs and happily chew them up to make nests.
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Old 28 June 2015, 21:38   #10
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>>> They love rolled up Zodiac sibs and happily chew them up to make nests

Keep moving them is the answer... seriously the mice fail to settle in a moving target.
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Old 29 June 2015, 02:06   #11
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If the boat is kept protected from the sun. the PVC on a Zodiac should easily last 30 or 40 years. The seams are welded and should last just as long, the glue on the other hand is a problem.

For some reason, Zodiac glue turns to pritt stick after about 10 years, although some boats last much longer. most dont.
2003-2014, the Zodiac Cadet lineup only has three spots of glue on it:
1.) The floor on the inside of the transom
2.) The floor on the outside of the transom
3.) The pie cut patches on the bottom corners of the transom

The boats were about 99.1% welded using a very high quality PVC material.

If the boat is maintained and the corner pockets between the tube and the transom are filled with a little mastic to prevent water ingress, a boat from that generation will outlast a Hypalon boat if the UV exposure is kept to a minimum.

The seams on Hypalon boats age, lose bond strength, and start to seep, especially if the tubes see a lot of flex cycles that cause the internal seam mastic to knock free.

This is not the case on welded PVC seams.

30-40 years is very possible.
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Old 29 June 2015, 07:48   #12
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Quote:
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...will outlast a Hypalon boat if the UV exposure is kept to a minimum.

The seams on Hypalon boats age, lose bond strength, and start to seep, especially if the tubes see a lot of flex cycles that cause the internal seam mastic to knock free.

Hmmmmm, I'm not sure that holds up to practical experience though.

Sure, the seams on welded boats are tough but the main issue is usually the transom/PVC glue interface failing which is a huge job to repair properly. Or in my case the rubbery supports in the transom/tube area split.

Certainly, if I wanted to buy a boat to last a 'lifetime' there's no doubt in my mind what it would be - a classic Avon Hypalon SIB with marine ply floor and transom. Properly washed, maintained and varnished every few years I don't think anything else will outlast it. And there are countless thousands in use in the UK from many decades ago to illustrate this.

Regardless, for practical reasons I use a Zodiac (Bombard - same company) SIB and like most here do my best to preserve it: washed down without fail every time, floor out often to remove silt/stones that chafe material, kept in the garage out of the sun and kept lightly inflated all season (and only at correct max pressure when actually on the water).
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Old 29 June 2015, 09:02   #13
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I have a cheap as chips chinese mass produced seago that is at least 15 years old. Still used regulary but get little love and attention from me..its lucky to get washed at the end of the year.I find mice wont go near it cos it stinks of old fish.

Although dragged up beaches ..it has not one patch and holds air indefinately. No glue deterioration evident either.. but the transom only powers a 3.3hp engine so not too much stress on it.

So the good news is ..reading the rest of the replys.. if I buy a new SIB tomorrow... its lifetime will definately outlast the remained of my lifetime .. so I cant complain at that
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Old 29 June 2015, 09:54   #14
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>>>2003-2014, the Zodiac Cadet lineup only has three spots of glue on it:

Perhaps without being aware of the actual age I've not realised the many Zodiacs I've known of with near terminal glue failure have been pre 2003. I know for certain the glue issue has bitten some people badly with 1990s PVC Zodiacs when the Hypalon models from 20yrs previous were totally sound.

Personally I've not experienced any problems with older Hypalon in the UK climate. In the attached images the Hypalon Avon with the yellow seats was around 31yrs old when the picture was taken, the Hypalon Zodiac was over 40yrs old. Both boats were totally free of fabric, glue, fittings or transom/floor issues. A real credit to their build quality.

It does seem Zodiac struggled a little with glue quality when they went from Hypalon to PVC for their leisure range... hopefully office888 is right once they sorted out the PVC welding process things improved massively and these welded boats will last well.
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Old 29 June 2015, 12:35   #15
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Sure, the seams on welded boats are tough but the main issue is usually the transom/PVC glue interface failing which is a huge job to repair properly. Or in my case the rubbery supports in the transom/tube area split.
Starting in 1993, Zodiac/Bombard moved to a welded transom on the Cadet and similar tender type models.

The transom holder did experience some plasticizer migration problems in the earlier years which lead to cracking, but the repair for it is quite easy...fill with mastic, then patch over. 2.5 hr to fix both sides.

Nonetheless, the seams on a welded PVC boat will always be superior to that of a hypalon boat in the long run.

Quote:
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Perhaps without being aware of the actual age I've not realised the many Zodiacs I've known of with near terminal glue failure have been pre 2003. I know for certain the glue issue has bitten some people badly with 1990s PVC Zodiacs when the Hypalon models from 20yrs previous were totally sound.

It does seem Zodiac struggled a little with glue quality when they went from Hypalon to PVC for their leisure range... hopefully office888 is right once they sorted out the PVC welding process things improved massively and these welded boats will last well.
1993 - 2002, Zodiac/Bombard PVC tender-type (such as the Cadet) boats had a glued floor. 1993 - 1998 or so, the tube end cones were glued as well.

We shall see...
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Old 30 June 2015, 16:55   #16
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Well, it sounds like l have a few more years left in my Zodiac yet!
Under most stress seem to be the lower transom corners where the tubes and floor are bonded/glued with circular patches.
When you fold the boat these patches take a hammering as they are twisted and bent round. But mine seem fine so far.
We've never had so much fun for £800 than with this boat! Plus the engine of course.
Just got back from Windermere and off to Norfolk Broads again soon. Already looking at Scotland for next year. Fabulous week there last Summer at Loch Sween...temperature reached over 100degF one day.
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Old 30 June 2015, 17:47   #17
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>>> Fabulous week there last Summer at Loch Sween

Off there for two weeks in 10 days time. So looking forward to it with the 340 Acti-V vs Aerotec trials!

Where did you stay?


Office888 if you are still looking in do you know the Bombard Aerotec build details... when/if they moved from glued to welded on the various seams etc?
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Old 01 July 2015, 14:27   #18
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>>> Fabulous week there last Summer at Loch Sween

Off there for two weeks in 10 days time. So looking forward to it with the 340 Acti-V vs Aerotec trials!

Where did you stay?


Office888 if you are still looking in do you know the Bombard Aerotec build details... when/if they moved from glued to welded on the various seams etc?
The Bombard Aerotec is not imported in to the United States in large quantities so I don't have a lot of intimate elbow-deep experience with the build of that boat... It just isn't a popular boat design here.

I believe it was introduced in 1995? It comes off of the Classic, Futura, and Commando lines, so all of the air seams are welded, including the end cone. The hard black plastic end cones are pretty cool, there's actually a soft vinyl piece welded in to the boat to become the air-tight seal, then the black plastic cone is welded on after that to protect and further seal the end cone. There probably is a small glued / clamp welded flap on the boat somewhere which was the "exit port" for the welding machine. It is usually in a protected, low-stress location.

However, just like the Classic, Futura, and Commando lines:
Hand glued Y-strip of the floor
Hand glued transom layup construction

I find that British boat owners tend to take better care of their inflatables than Americans do... An Aerotec should last a decade, minimum in that case. If you're willing to reglue or at least reinforce the floor and transom at about the 12 year mark, then 20-25 years isn't unreasonable.

The big concern actually is the high pressure air floor. If you use an older permeable gas tank, the gas will seep through the plastic and damage the PVC material in the location where you keep it at. I recommend putting a sacrificial piece of PVC underneath it, or maybe making a wood tray for it to sit on.

Gasoline exposure has been the #1 cause of all high pressure air floor failures I've seen.
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Old 01 July 2015, 17:05   #19
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Excellent information... many thanks.
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Old 18 July 2015, 04:45   #20
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Just bought this one to try MDR Inflatable & Dinghy Cleaner & UV Protector Kit

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