Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 
Old 11 September 2018, 07:34   #1
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: East Anglia
Boat name: Nimrod II
Make: Aerotec 380
Length: 3m +
Engine: Yamaha 15Hp 2-stroke
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,065
Challenging Aerotec floor repair.

While I've had the aerotec inflated in the garage to do the transom job I've noticed the left side floor panel loses some pressure over a day or two. Measured it at a 10% pressure loss per 12hrs.

Quick go over with leak detection fluid and I have found the problem. At the very start of the joining flap fusion (it's heat welded on these later ones) a very small sharp stone had become trapped and worked it's way into the material enough to leak.

Images of the flap, the bubbles and the tiny hole (a sort of grey dot on the image in the bit I've pulled back).

If this was in the middle of an area of floor very easy to repair. However...

Ideally I'd like to get a patch around 60mm dia on a HP floor leak. But this location is a pig and I reckon I'll have to Stanley knife the flap from the floor for a distance... patch and then attach the flap back with a reinforcing strip. But there's a problem with that if you see the reinforcing tape which also seems to be heat welded... but it is only PVC coated one side so part of my patch would be trying to stick to what I guess is woven fibreglass.... which I don't think would work.

Any thoughts appreciated before the Stanley knife comes out.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Floor leak flap.jpg
Views:	186
Size:	82.6 KB
ID:	126801   Click image for larger version

Name:	Floor leak bubbles.jpg
Views:	197
Size:	84.1 KB
ID:	126802   Click image for larger version

Name:	Floor leak hole.jpg
Views:	188
Size:	93.8 KB
ID:	126803  
__________________

__________________
Fenlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 September 2018, 07:52   #2
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Sussex
Boat name: Bombard, Y-162
Make: Aerotec 380, Y-Class
Length: 3m +
Engine: Mercury Mariner 15hp
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,010
Hmm, I'd be reluctant to 'disassemble' more to treat a very small hole. I'd try the below and if not I'd probably live with it - too many times over the years I've dived in and made things worse - only now with age can I make myself hold back and learn from it!

I'd be looking at a chemical repair - ie a flexible two part epoxy, maybe try some PU (Sikaflex etc) or even a bit of plastic welding (with a solder iron) but this is risky. You need some of the material to practise on but it might work melting and dripping/welding into the hole.

One side of mine goes down slightly more quickly than the other but never enough to be an issue.



But definitely try a drop of some chemical/adhesive first.
__________________

__________________
Max... is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 September 2018, 08:25   #3
Member
 
The Gurnard's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Stirling
Boat name: The Gurnard
Make: Quicksilver
Length: 4m +
Engine: mariner 25hp 2s
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,266
A difficult one Fenlander as I have no experience with high pressure air floors.

However if it were mine.. as Max mentioned.. I would ram that small triangular space full of Sikaflex. The critics poo hoo'ed me repairing The Gurnard that way three years ago..Im sure you remember that thread.. anyhoo ..they were all wrong.. I have not looked at that repair since and it still hold pressure indefinitely. I have done hundreds of miles in the boat since and in some rough weather.

Perhaps a patch over the triangle mouth to ensure the Sikaflex stays in place once you test to see if it hold the air. Just a suggestion..but I know its not the professional way
__________________
The Gurnard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 September 2018, 08:35   #4
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: East Anglia
Boat name: Nimrod II
Make: Aerotec 380
Length: 3m +
Engine: Yamaha 15Hp 2-stroke
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,065
To be honest I think I agree for this tiny leak a "chemical" solution from a tube may be best and leave the Stanley knife in the toolbox. The rate of leakage is so small it would only lose 5% of pressure over a typical day out... I'd not have noticed until next year's summer holiday when inflated for two weeks had I not carried out the transom job.

I wonder if Sikaflex is the best (292i?)... happy to buy an expensive tube of "miracle repair" type stuff if it exists.

The other option I guess would be to use proper 2-part PVC adhesive and glue the flap down as its own minute patch??
__________________
Fenlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 September 2018, 11:14   #5
Member
 
Country: USA
Town: S. Carolina
Boat name: D560
Make: Avon
Length: 5m +
Engine: 2016 Merc 115hp CT
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,251
McNetts Aquaseal.

Put a dot of it on there.
__________________
Richard
Gluing geek since 2007
Opinions and intepretations expressed are solely my own and do not express the views or opinions of my employer
office888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 September 2018, 11:30   #6
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Sussex
Boat name: Bombard, Y-162
Make: Aerotec 380, Y-Class
Length: 3m +
Engine: Mercury Mariner 15hp
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,010
Quote:
Originally Posted by office888 View Post
McNetts Aquaseal.

Put a dot of it on there.
That might be the same as 'Stormsure' we get in the UK? - I've got a few tubes in the fridge - useful stuff.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_o...msure&_sacat=0
__________________
Max... is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 September 2018, 12:38   #7
Member
 
Country: USA
Town: California
Make: zodiac futura
Length: 4m +
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 183
I too have no High pressure floor experience.
But treating it as just a small hole is the first option as the others say. But I'd try to get the glue inside as well. Perhaps inject some with a needle injector and then on the top. A actual patch may not be needed. The pressure inside would push the inside glue against the air leak instead of the pressure pushing it off.
__________________
pagick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 September 2018, 14:37   #8
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: East Anglia
Boat name: Nimrod II
Make: Aerotec 380
Length: 3m +
Engine: Yamaha 15Hp 2-stroke
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,065
This guy seems confident of Stormsure…

Looking at instructions and videos it does seem Stormsure is the same as Aquaseal which isn't easily available in the UK.
__________________
Fenlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 September 2018, 15:02   #9
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Retford
Boat name: Spy-sea-one
Make: Excel 435
Length: 4m +
Engine: Suzuki Outboard/25/4
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,539
You could use aquasure used on dry suits a clear liquid self levels work into the hole and form a large area under the flap weight it down so the flap becomes the patch stuck down with the aquasure.

Or as said inject a small amount of the internal sealing liquid with the for upside down creating an internal patch I know that does work.
__________________
jeffstevens763@g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 September 2018, 15:06   #10
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: suffolk
Boat name: not yet
Make: Nautica/ribcraft
Length: 5m +
Engine: Yam 115/ Honda 100
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 498
when i was a teenager i had a 66 mini cooper with a leaky radiator ,i used to put an egg white in it !! never failed
__________________
Orwell boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 September 2018, 16:57   #11
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: East Anglia
Boat name: Nimrod II
Make: Aerotec 380
Length: 3m +
Engine: Yamaha 15Hp 2-stroke
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,065
The idea of injecting some sealer inside is very valid. I do have hypodermics but the hole is a pinprick smaller than the needle and I'd hate to increase it... I'll think on that while I wait for the Stormsure to arrive.
__________________
Fenlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 September 2018, 17:48   #12
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Cambridge
Make: Bombard DB 600
Length: 6m +
Engine: Mariner 90HP carb
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenlander View Post
The idea of injecting some sealer inside is very valid. I do have hypodermics but the hole is a pinprick smaller than the needle and I'd hate to increase it
I would try to melt some PVC with a soldering iron to fill the hole - looks like there's just enough access for that and this is also small enough for a bit of melted plastic.

If you choose to go down the route of filling with glues/fillers/etc, then I'd make sure that there's no contact between the repair and the flap that's glued on top. This is because if the repair stick to the flappy part, then the flappy part will be pulling the repair up. Knowing how things go, the adhesion to the flap will be better than adhesion around the pinprick hole.
__________________
Jerry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 September 2018, 18:44   #13
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: East Anglia
Boat name: Nimrod II
Make: Aerotec 380
Length: 3m +
Engine: Yamaha 15Hp 2-stroke
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,065
My photo makes it look easier than it is for access... so I'm not sure I could get the melted plastic anywhere near.

However I have gently probed with a fine hypodermic needle which has gone through the hole OK (as well as my finger but thankfully not the other side of the air floor). So I will hang the floor upside down from the garage joists and see if I can create a small inner plug of Stormsure (which I've just Ebay ordered) before I do the outside.

You are spot on with the flap needing keeping away from the repair until fully cured and I'll make sure to do that.
__________________
Fenlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 September 2018, 00:40   #14
Member
 
Country: UK - Wales
Town: Cardiff
Boat name: 2 anchors
Make: Bombard Aerotec 380
Length: 3m +
Engine: 15hp Mariner 2 str
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 70
Ummm tricky. You could try Polymarine Sealflex through the valve and letting it puddle and dry behind the hole but Im not sure of the internal floor structure. Otherwise they do some stuff called Sureseal that goes on the outside but Id be happier with something inside where the pressure is forcing it against rather than away from the hole. You could squirt something inside with a syringe and hyperdermic needle . Keep us posted.
__________________
hymerbeliever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 September 2018, 00:43   #15
Member
 
Country: UK - Wales
Town: Cardiff
Boat name: 2 anchors
Make: Bombard Aerotec 380
Length: 3m +
Engine: 15hp Mariner 2 str
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by hymerbeliever View Post
Ummm tricky. You could try Polymarine Sealflex through the valve and letting it puddle and dry behind the hole but Im not sure of the internal floor structure. Otherwise they do some stuff called Sureseal that goes on the outside but Id be happier with something inside where the pressure is forcing it against rather than away from the hole. You could squirt something inside with a syringe and hyperdermic needle . Keep us posted.
Missed pagev2 of the thread and your last post where you suggest exactly this!!!!
__________________
hymerbeliever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 September 2018, 02:59   #16
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: East Anglia
Boat name: Nimrod II
Make: Aerotec 380
Length: 3m +
Engine: Yamaha 15Hp 2-stroke
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,065
Cheers, I've replied missing the last post many times in the past.

The floor will be fine for a mini puddle inside perhaps no more than a flattened pea size amount of sealer. I would intend to leave the floor inflated for at least a week to really cure it so there is no possibility the floor upper/lower surfaces would try and stick together.
__________________
Fenlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 September 2018, 03:51   #17
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Retford
Boat name: Spy-sea-one
Make: Excel 435
Length: 4m +
Engine: Suzuki Outboard/25/4
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenlander View Post
The idea of injecting some sealer inside is very valid. I do have hypodermics but the hole is a pinprick smaller than the needle and I'd hate to increase it... I'll think on that while I wait for the Stormsure to arrive.
i agree with dont make the hole larger just use a syringe without needle and basically pressurise the hole if you hold it tight enough you should have minimal spill mrs F might be needed to help hold the floor flat, syringes can be bought from pet stores used to test water if needed you could use the stormsure in that way too
__________________
jeffstevens763@g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 September 2018, 04:12   #18
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: East Anglia
Boat name: Nimrod II
Make: Aerotec 380
Length: 3m +
Engine: Yamaha 15Hp 2-stroke
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,065
>>>use a syringe without needle

That's a good idea Jeff as the glue/sealer will likely be better placed adj to the hole on the inside and form one part with that in the hole and on the outside.

No shortage of syringes here as we were horse owners for decades until 10yrs ago and at every vets visit for injections kept and washed out the used ones as they are so useful for DIY etc.
__________________
Fenlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 September 2018, 04:35   #19
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Retford
Boat name: Spy-sea-one
Make: Excel 435
Length: 4m +
Engine: Suzuki Outboard/25/4
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenlander View Post
>>>use a syringe without needle

That's a good idea Jeff as the glue/sealer will likely be better placed adj to the hole on the inside and form one part with that in the hole and on the outside.

No shortage of syringes here as we were horse owners for decades until 10yrs ago and at every vets visit for injections kept and washed out the used ones as they are so useful for DIY etc.
thats right the shape of a dumbbell as it were connected through the hole and if the fabric is weighted down and stuck will protect the repair and the area
__________________
jeffstevens763@g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 September 2018, 17:37   #20
Member
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Make: Destroyer 5.5/Ring18
Length: 3m +
Engine: Yam 90HP/Yam200HP
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 690
Ron Hale Marine had some good stuff for fixing floors when I was looking a while ago
__________________

__________________
69cmw is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
repair

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 20:01.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×