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Old 25 January 2009, 23:25   #11
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I'm looking forward to trying the Torquedo out, pt.

First impressions are that it does seem a little noisier than the MK's. There again, running full chat, even the Travel model seems a fair bit more powerful.

The MK's 'weedless props' are very good. Is the Torquedo's larger prop going to make the grade when running through a bit of kelp?

The high torque reduction gearbox, brushless motor, pulse width modulation......how does it all translate when in use?

All, and more, will hopefully be revealed.




Can't big up the maintenance side of things enough. It may all sound a bit anal, but really it's no big deal. 40, tops, for a compression gauge, multimeter and a notepad.... you're away, and after a few trips, far more 'qualified' than any marine mechanic lifting the cowl from your engine for the very first time.*

Other than having just about the most reliable boat out on the water, it will save you a fortune in the long run.

A cracking day's offshore fishing or total disaster can be but an Ohm or a few psi apart.



* Relates to fairly simple 2 and 4 stroke engines, in addition to usual servicing and inspection. ETECs etc. require the pro's for computer diagnostics, fault code readers, data logging.......to run a full check.
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Old 26 January 2009, 10:57   #12
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Oar Kits

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Originally Posted by Geoff_Jubb View Post
Hi,
I have asked this question before and told it wasn't necessary, but my missus worries (and I guess maybe I do too...) so....
I currently have a tohatsu 9.8hp 2 stroke on my sib (3.2m Avon), but my boat has no rowlocks, and to be honest I wouldn't trust myself rowing back in against the tide. Do any of you use an aux on your sibs?
Any recommendations on size of aux? I am thinking of another tohatsu, probably a two stroke. Are there any good power / weight combinations (with the emphasis on weight)?
Having already 2 spare oars, will be a good idea to buy a row lock kit, a matter of searching for one, you can have then glued to your sib's side, will need also 2 oar's holders, better to have them specially for one mate rowing, it's complicated to side row using one single oar, unless there is a second mate for a 2 mate better rowing performance. Very usefull for small maneouvers, beaching in-out, shallow water use, etc. A 3.20 sib transom is very narrow for a second engine, will have difficulties when turning as both will be too close. Anyway try a very small portable one before buying to see it's maneurability.

Happy Sibbing
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Old 26 January 2009, 13:07   #13
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Can't big up the maintenance side of things enough. It may all sound a bit anal, but really it's no big deal. 40, tops, for a compression gauge, multimeter and a notepad.... you're away, and after a few trips, far more 'qualified' than any marine mechanic lifting the cowl from your engine for the very first time.*

Sharkbyte is this straight forward to do and can you reccomend a suitable compression gauge and multimeter?

I am very keen to learn a bit more about outboards.
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Old 26 January 2009, 16:24   #14
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Maintenance Time

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That said, I run my main engines maintenance schedule much like, if not in excess of, that of a single prop aeroplane. After every two trips, it is compression checked, multimeter readings taken from main electrical components, remaining fuel drained from tank and filtered back....etc.
Any problems are 99% of the time detectable long before any symptoms begin to develop, and miles before a breakdown or prohibitively expensive, catastrophic failure.
The most reliable & spot on maintenance service schedule is to buy a Tiny Tach, secure it well on inside engine, you could transfer used hours to a written or computer data log to keep record of spare parts and service performed. For portable and medium range engines up to 40 HP, 2 strokes, 2 cylinder engines the best maintenance service is at: each 50 metered working hours :

1-Clean spark plugs seats, threads, remove carbon on spark plugs tips , re gap to factory specs, rotate, replace & tight well

2-Change & top with 90 or 80/90 multigrade gear oil until outing oil appears on upper plug.

3-Remove and clean gas pump & inside tank bottom gas filter.

A outboard is not a one prop airplane, so if engine is dead you're still floating. Would think on the idea to make compression and electrical tests every 2 outings just for the pleasure of doing it, or as a time killer issue maybe. Both technically unproductive. If using good grade gasoline, good 2 strokes oil in a well mix proportion in a well treated and maintained engine, will require piston’s ring change over 1,000 hours use, so it’s useless a compression test very often. These 2 tools are for shope use, and need the technical manuals to have at hand the info to know what to read and procedure on how to read.

Difficult to determine electrical future failures, if engines works well, will have correct factory specs readings, if failure during use will have different factory readings and engine not performing well or a complete drop dead engine. Electrical & compression meters will help to diagnose specific problems once you have them, but will not avoid having engine problems while working. Works excatly as a car.

You should pay more attention to these important maintenance points rather than compression & electrical tests. Check these important points each 50 hours use and will have trouble free reliable operation assured at it's best. Do not remove plugs that often, as head coils are bit delicate and will wear faster than in normal maintenance intervals.

Happy Sibbing
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Old 26 January 2009, 16:45   #15
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Hi all,
Thanks for all the replies.
I had meant to say I would just store the engine up towards the bow, and change when wnd if necessary.
I hadn't thought of an electric motor, but after thinking they sound like the perfect answer. I imagine they need a lot less maintanance when not in use than a two stroke (no old fuel in tanks etc..). Quite light as well, and I am sure you could mount it somewhere else other than the transom when you needed to (with some kind of bracket maybe). Also it could be used to sneak up on fish and correct drifts as I am sure someone said these were quite quiet.
I looked at the torqeedo. Looks very good but quite a price. I am maybe thinking of a Minn Kota. Does anyone have any experiance of these in salt water?
Thanks again for all help,
Geoff
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Old 26 January 2009, 17:04   #16
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Just had a look at the batteries Minn Kota recommend for them and they will make it nearly as heavy as my main engine! Still, has anyone any experiance of them?
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Old 28 January 2009, 06:02   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff_Jubb View Post
Hi,
I have asked this question before and told it wasn't necessary, but my missus worries (and I guess maybe I do too...) so....
I currently have a tohatsu 9.8hp 2 stroke on my sib (3.2m Avon), but my boat has no rowlocks, and to be honest I wouldn't trust myself rowing back in against the tide. Do any of you use an aux on your sibs?
Any recommendations on size of aux? I am thinking of another tohatsu, probably a two stroke. Are there any good power / weight combinations (with the emphasis on weight)?
hi Geoff,does your boat have a coller or the proper name BOLT , that goes around the top of the tubes, some have lifelines looped on ,if so punch a couple of large brass eyelets in it and put a small loop and use that as a rowlock ,though as you said they are not the best boats to row against a tide or wind , with the recomendations of oars , it is to stop you been set onto a rock or keeping head to sea rather that of getting home ,on the subject of an aux ,with small fast boats you can be a couple of miles away within a few moments ., then with a small aux engine it could take hours to get back in if at all if against wind or tide ,though a lot depends on the local area .,i think as locozodiac said having faith and a well maintained engine is the best bet ,if i am operating near rocks or reefs i carry a spare prop ,a few decent tools that fit properly , a few spares though most outboards faults are electrical ie salt spray, so small can of wd 40 and a dry rag ,plug lead and cap ,a small piece of short tube that can sleeve any split rubber fuel pipes ,i know its piece of mind to carry another engine but at what cost is it on space and extra weight in a small boat ,regards mart.
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Old 28 January 2009, 13:13   #18
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Hi Locozodiac

In the interests of maintaining healthy debate, and with all due respect, I really couldn't disagree more.

:-)

If I was restricted to summertime expeditions up and down the estuary, I'd probably go along with what you're saying but the fact is that most of my recent exploits are nothing of the sort, and I'm all for maximising the odds in my favour.

A compression check can warn of otherwise undetectable problems. A friend of mine happened to notice a loss of a couple of knots of off his top speed (I very rarely run flat out). Engine appeared to be running fine, no bad noises, no conking out. It was only a compression check that revealed a huge loss of psi on one cylinder. A subsequent stripdown revealed that a main bearing had disintegrated and badly damaged one of the pistons / bores / heads. It was scrap, yet if he hadn't done the compression check when he did, chances are he would have taken the boat out next time, none the wiser. We can only speculate as to whether an earlier compression check would have revealed the first signs of that disintegration.

I've never encountered any thread wear whatsoever. I've also never had to exert extreme pressure on a sticky plug to get it out.

Do the rings suddenly start giving up after 999 hours on every single example of a particular engine?

It's very unlikely, especially when you haven't owned the engine from new. How did the previous owner treat it? Did he forget the oil once or twice......I know that the previous owner of my engine didn't. 150 psi a cylinder. Any changes and I'll be swapping the rings before they break up and score the bores up.


You mention the need for workshop manuals before using a multimeter. I think that this misses the point. If you are spending literally minutes logging a few readings taken from the engine with a multimeter, it is change that you are looking for. Changes that warn of worsening conductivity (eg HT leads), a gradual breakdown of an electrical component (eg. coilpack), or a sudden and complete failure that could very well go undiagnosed until your ten miles out (eg. rectifier). The baseline readings given in the manual have their uses, but as you say... usually when you have broken down and it's too late.

A standard service does absolutely nothing to warn of a number of potential, and very common, reasons for engine failure.It's a bit like saying an oil change in your car will prevent the alternator from going caput.

Thankfully, the average 2 stroke is infinitely more simple than a car and the all round access to the core components makes things a doddle. Allowing half hour for the checks I run, every other trip, was being generous. I take no enjoyment from it but consider that fifteen minutes per trip from me is a whole lot better than the considerable number of unpaid, volunteer hours, hundreds of litres of diesel and associated running expenses it would incur the RNLI to perform a 30 mile round trip / 'rescue' at 3am on a winter's morning!

If I ever had to call for assistance, I would be absolutely mortified.


The fuel pump is probably best not taken apart and reassembled. Get a new kit every couple of years and simply replace the seals / gaskets and diaphragm. It costs peanuts.

The fuel filters standard on most smallish outboards are next to useless. Don't rely on them. If they were any good, why do so many carburated outboards grind to a halt with blocked jets?

All said and done, everyone has their own way of doing things. My way is admittedly toward the more extreme end of the spectrum (if 15 minutes per trip is considered extreme?), but then so are my offshore fishing expeditions.


Cheers


Wayne
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Old 28 January 2009, 13:44   #19
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just to echo a part of sharkbites reply ,i bought a brand new yamaha 9.5 obviously a 2 stroke in 1976, i only sold it 2 years ago ,still a decent runner and in that time apart from a set of plugs every couple of years, 6 impellers ,2 props ,2 waterpump housings ,and a set of reed valves that was it ,oh and 2 sets of points ,it was always flushed after each use .looking back through my logs it had run for around 3500 hours , it always had a tad extra oil in the fuel mix ,and had never had the fuel pump touched in over 32 years of fairly regular use . regards mart,
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Old 28 January 2009, 15:39   #20
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Hi Sharkbyte

Just some comments:

You can buy a compression meter if you like, but it's not a piece of equipment everyone should have at hand, specially if you don't know how to use it properly.

I've encountered thread wears on engines that were torqed to extreme tight, this issue is not common with people that puts the right torque on plugs.

Keep in mind that most electrical components have wide parameters to check for, like minimun and maximum readings, if readings differ, change or repair if sufficiently squilled that component. This is not a guess issue, this info is inside the technical service manual for that given engine, so buy one and have it at hand.

Anyone can use a multimeter at any time to test components, are you going to guess the electrical data required of every electrical component ? It's not a on/off issue. This data will be usefull to check electrical parameters alterations, will depend entirely on you if outing or staying home, but electrical components can break/caput/drop dead at any time while in use, previous or not previos checked.

Changing gear oil won't stop engine failure, will be useful for the tail gears to work properly , but fuel filters and spark plugs are a must to regularly check, clean, as these can give performance problems at any time. Never had gas filters and spark plug failures in my life while sibbing. Why risk ?

Seems you are the only one that finds factory gas filters to be defective, non appropriate, useless, I find they work and perform their job perfect periodically stripped and cleaned. Stated wrongly to clean gas pump every 50 worked hours, was meaning the big gas filter located between gas intake and gas pump. It's good to strip, clean pump components each 300 hours and change if needed.

How long & travelled distances are your fishing expeditions ?

Happy Sibbing
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