Anchor Advice

dave gregson · 15 April 2018, 20:54

Hi,

Just got a Honwave 3.5m today with a Honda 20hp on the back.

Can you please reccomend a suitable anchor / chain and rope for this set up.

I will be useing the boat for fishing around Anglesey including the Menai Straights.

Space will be an issue but I need it to be big enough to hold???

cheers

Dave

Highland Haggis · 15 April 2018, 20:58

2kg Bruce 3.5 meters of chain and 40 meters of 6mm or 8 mm rope that should be enough to hold you [emoji41]

Mikefule · 16 April 2018, 04:51

Anchor Selection Guide: How to Choose the Best Boat Anchor Type | Anchoring Articles and Tutorials

Danforth Standard Marine Anchor

Remember that thick rope is easier to handle when your hands are cold and wet.

Many people anchor with too little line out. A long anchor line acts as a shock absorber due to the catenary curve, giving the anchor itself more chance todo its job.

Those folding grapnel type anchors are OK on rock, but weak on sand and mud. A Danforth anchor is good on sand and mud but less good on rock.

I've included some links above.

HDAV · 16 April 2018, 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Highland Haggis

2kg Bruce 3.5 meters of chain and 40 meters of 6mm or 8 mm rope that should be enough to hold you [emoji41]

Bruce holds great on any bottom I have tried. Chain is a must

Max... · 19 April 2018, 10:03

As above - Bruce 2kg + chain 2 or 3 metres is enough on a SIB and lots of line - I carry 50m of 6m or 8mm (cannot remember) is easy to tuck away.

willk · 19 April 2018, 18:03

As chance would have it, I used the SIB anchor as a lunch hook for the RIB today. 1 knot of tide working in tandem with a 5m/s wind on a 3 ton RIB over compacted sand. 2.5kg bruce on 3m chain with 8mm line - total win.

Max... · 20 April 2018, 07:08

I modded my Bruce to fit in the Peli - daren't post details/pics or I'll be ripped apart on here (by people telling me I'll be ripped apart on the rocks when it fails!).

Striker · 22 April 2018, 06:48

I bought one of these for my PWC and now use it on the Rib

https://cooperanchors.com/

I remain really impressed as it is nylon and relatively light weight so less danger of damaging you or your boat in storage. But due to the design they always roll and dig in. Works with most bottom types, but you always risk loosing an anchor on rocks without a tipping line.

I still use this anchor on my 7mtr rib as a back up / stern anchor but in reality I use it for lunch stops due to its ease of use. I really ought to invest in the larger size now though.

Anglesey is my cruising ground also. It’s generally a sandy bottom unless your in close to Puffin island where I snapped a leg off a grapple anchor when it was fast on a rock. (Tried the running over it technique [emoji15])

HDAV · 22 April 2018, 09:03

I’d be annoyed if my Bruce got stuck, really upset if I lost a cooper......

https://www.marinescene.co.uk/produc...ium-anchor-kit

https://cooperanchors.com/anchors/

Striker · 22 April 2018, 10:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDAV

I’d be annoyed if my Bruce got stuck, really upset if I lost a cooper......

https://www.marinescene.co.uk/produc...ium-anchor-kit

https://cooperanchors.com/anchors/

I’ve shackled my line to the ‘tipping eye’ and used a fairly heavy duty cable tie to hold the line to the eye on the shank.

That way if it does snag a decent tug should snap the tie and bring the anchor out backwards. I wouldn’t use this method in an unattended boat though.

The only negative is that I would be leaving another piece of plastic behind, which we could do without. But we could all do our bit and bring a bucket of the stuff back off the beaches after every trip.

Anyone know of some other way of doing the above without using a cable tie?

Highland Haggis · 22 April 2018, 20:09

You could use a half slip knot it’s connected to a prusik knot witch is connected to your main line if you pull back wards it slips the knot out

pagick · 19 May 2018, 04:44

I always use a slide box anchor. It comes in a mini size. They fold flat and don't need lead chain. Holds in any surface including sand. I also use a 12' bungie anchor rope to ease any wave tugging that might lift it. I use them in a river with current and other boats creating wakes. Rocks,grass or sand. They don't get hung up. It also has a canvas bag to keep it in.

Mikefule · 19 May 2018, 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Striker

I’ve shackled my line to the ‘tipping eye’ and used a fairly heavy duty cable tie to hold the line to the eye on the shank.

That way if it does snag a decent tug should snap the tie and bring the anchor out backwards. I wouldn’t use this method in an unattended boat though.

The only negative is that I would be leaving another piece of plastic behind, which we could do without. But we could all do our bit and bring a bucket of the stuff back off the beaches after every trip.

Anyone know of some other way of doing the above without using a cable tie?

That's not something I'd risk. The cable tie simultaneously needs to be strong enough not to break in normal use, yet weak enough to break with a sudden decent tug. A sort of quantum cable tie.

Bear in mind that you probably let out an anchor line equivalent to 3-5 times the depth, a separate line from the tipping eye to a surface float only needs to be just over 1 x the water depth.

Poly · 20 May 2018, 05:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikefule

That's not something I'd risk. The cable tie simultaneously needs to be strong enough not to break in normal use, yet weak enough to break with a sudden decent tug. A sort of quantum cable tie.

Bear in mind that you probably let out an anchor line equivalent to 3-5 times the depth, a separate line from the tipping eye to a surface float only needs to be just over 1 x the water depth.

It’s actually quite a commonly used approach. There is no quantum capability required just classic physics! In normal use the cable tie isn’t carrying the load of the boat (that is still delivered to the shackle) it is simply keeping the chain aligned to the shank. You don’t need to break the tie for normal recovery only if the anchor has become foul, so it’s not about one sharp tug but rather a slow steady pull on a now tight/vertical chain which should be 90deg to the shank now. It is a good conditions/on board approach though rather than something to do if there is any risk the cable tie could be worn through, or big wind shifts might change the load direction.

Mikefule · 20 May 2018, 06:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poly

It’s actually quite a commonly used approach. There is no quantum capability required just classic physics! In normal use the cable tie isn’t carrying the load of the boat (that is still delivered to the shackle) it is simply keeping the chain aligned to the shank. You don’t need to break the tie for normal recovery only if the anchor has become foul, so it’s not about one sharp tug but rather a slow steady pull on a now tight/vertical chain which should be 90deg to the shank now. It is a good conditions/on board approach though rather than something to do if there is any risk the cable tie could be worn through, or big wind shifts might change the load direction.

I can see how it would work in calm conditions, maybe fishing off a rocky headland in calm seas. I suppose it's where you choose to put your risk threshold. If you wouldn't use it in an unattended boat or bad conditions, you clearly accept there is some risk, however small, of the cable tie wearing or snapping.

So imagine you need to anchor in an emergency: the weather deteriorates, you're near to rocks on a lee shore, and your engine fails. You need to deploy the anchor immediately and you don't have time to reattach it in the conventional way.

It sounds like one of those things that will work 9 times out of 10, maybe 19 times out of 20, but the 1 time left over may be the one where you cannot afford any additional risk at all.

Then again, if the alternative is having to leave your jammed anchor for later retrieval, perfect risk management would require at least one complete duplicate system in case you have another problem on the way back tot he slipway, which isn't a practical option on a small boat.

Personal choice. I wouldn't do it myself but it doesn't mean someone else is wrong if they reach a different decision.

Poly · 20 May 2018, 06:18

Actually I have two anchors, and rodes! Your point is valid, but you can leave it with a shackle in as the default and only remove it when you conditions allow. Also if the tie snaps and you start dragging, 19/20 times you could recover it, add a shackle and redeploy. There’s no guarantee an anchor will not drag anyway nor does it follow that if the tie wears through it will unset the anchor if you have enough rode out. If you get that wind shift as well presumably it’s no longer a lee shore? That all said I have been considering adding a tripping line and small buoy anyway... but it’s one more thing for my “crew” to get in a tangled mess which means deployment in an emergency becomes less likely/delayed.

ShinyShoe · 20 May 2018, 06:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikefule

I can see how it would work in calm conditions, maybe fishing off a rocky headland in calm seas. I suppose it's where you choose to put your risk threshold. If you wouldn't use it in an unattended boat or bad conditions, you clearly accept there is some risk, however small, of the cable tie wearing or snapping.

Its fairly conventional wisdom in the yachty community. They don't do it if leaving the boat overnight etc.

I've never actually heard of one failing so it may be more a perceived risk that actual - in all but the most mallicious of conditions.

Quote:

So imagine you need to anchor in an emergency: the weather deteriorates, you're near to rocks on a lee shore, and your engine fails. You need to deploy the anchor immediately and you don't have time to reattach it in the conventional way.

So the logical thing to do (if the conditions are vaguely likely to mean an emergency deployment could be needed and would be risky with a plastic part) is when you stow your anchor you drop a shackle through the chain and shank. When you safely arrive at lunch spot you remove said shackle and lob it over the side.

Quote:

It sounds like one of those things that will work 9 times out of 10, maybe 19 times out of 20, but the 1 time left over may be the one where you cannot afford any additional risk at all.

Try it. You'll find it is more like 1 in 100 or lower, and you do it in places you risk assess.

Quote:

Then again, if the alternative is having to leave your jammed anchor for later retrieval, perfect risk management would require at least one complete duplicate system in case you have another problem on the way back tot he slipway, which isn't a practical option on a small boat.

So you go for lunch, jam the anchor on a rock and can't get it back.

You are now returning home with no anchor which is considered a piece of emergency kit... If I had to deploy my anchor on a rocky lee shore and was worried about the cable tie failing, I'd at least stand a chance rather than having nothing to deploy.

Quote:

Personal choice. I wouldn't do it myself but it doesn't mean someone else is wrong if they reach a different decision.

As I say it is common practice in the yachty community around rocky places or places with known snag risks. The biggest concern from them seems to be that if the snap is required they are leaving plastic rubbish on the bottom. Can reduce the risk by using a thicker cable tie through the shank, then a thinner tie through the chain and the thicker tie. Pull the thicker one tight with pliers. Thinner will break and be held to the shank by the thicker one for 'safe' disposal.

Others use thin line to do the same.

In the yachty world - use of tripping buoys is filled with stories of other yachties coming along during the night and lifting the tripping buoy thinking it is a mooring pickup and as a result lifting your anchor... that may be yacht folklore but it is certainly seen as an issue...

willk · 20 May 2018, 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poly

That all said I have been considering adding a tripping line and small buoy anyway... but it’s one more thing for my “crew” to get in a tangled mess which means deployment in an emergency becomes less likely/delayed.

Yeah, it really is one more thing to get effed up. I suspect there is an art form in setting a tripping line cleanly and an emergency isn't the place to practise that art. They have a tendency to end up wrapped around the rode creating all sorts of issues. In emergency anchoring, managing to ensure the rode is attached to the boat and you're not attached to the anchor are, IMHO, the key points

Mikefule · 20 May 2018, 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShinyShoe

Its fairly conventional wisdom in the yachty community. They don't do it if leaving the boat overnight etc.

I've never actually heard of one failing so it may be more a perceived risk that actual - in all but the most mallicious of conditions.

So the logical thing to do (if the conditions are vaguely likely to mean an emergency deployment could be needed and would be risky with a plastic part) is when you stow your anchor you drop a shackle through the chain and shank. When you safely arrive at lunch spot you remove said shackle and lob it over the side.

Try it. You'll find it is more like 1 in 100 or lower, and you do it in places you risk assess.

So you go for lunch, jam the anchor on a rock and can't get it back.

You are now returning home with no anchor which is considered a piece of emergency kit... If I had to deploy my anchor on a rocky lee shore and was worried about the cable tie failing, I'd at least stand a chance rather than having nothing to deploy.

As I say it is common practice in the yachty community around rocky places or places with known snag risks. The biggest concern from them seems to be that if the snap is required they are leaving plastic rubbish on the bottom. Can reduce the risk by using a thicker cable tie through the shank, then a thinner tie through the chain and the thicker tie. Pull the thicker one tight with pliers. Thinner will break and be held to the shank by the thicker one for 'safe' disposal.

Others use thin line to do the same.

In the yachty world - use of tripping buoys is filled with stories of other yachties coming along during the night and lifting the tripping buoy thinking it is a mooring pickup and as a result lifting your anchor... that may be yacht folklore but it is certainly seen as an issue...

Well argued. I may be convinced.

HDAV · 20 May 2018, 20:21

If the chain is doing it’s job and the tie is robust then there should be virtually no action on the tie it’s just keep the link aligned with the shaft. Useful on small craft where carrying a tripping line and anchoring in any real depth is rare. If your anchoring overnight in heavy seas and deep water that’s a different story but then you probably not in 5-6m rib......