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Old 29 September 2013, 15:25   #51
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Originally Posted by IanH View Post
And a great fashion statement for some...
Yeah a bit like some brand of dry suits
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Old 29 September 2013, 17:17   #52
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Guess I should have explained the classes, as I did not think about the difference between US and British standards. The big ugly orange vests are type 1 which will turn an unconscious wearer face up in pretty ugly water. They are used primarily for offshore work. The type 2 may turn an unconscious user face up and should be used in sheltered waters only. Our inflatables come in different series from basically a simple floatation device to ones similar to the type 1. If you use an inflatable not capable of turning a person face up, you still may drown. Unfortunately some people pulled from the water wearing a floatation device have drowned.

Hypothermia is a real problem, so anyone boating where it would be probable should certainly wear the proper attire. But I thought the subject was not wearing a PFD in calm water at slow speed?

The shotguns were primarily used from a canoe duck hunting in calm water, not when joy riding in calm water with the family.

There is a tremendous difference from running at high speed in a small craft in the open ocean and cruising at slow speed in sheltered waters. The faster you go and the rougher the water, the faster you can get yourself in trouble. A lookout in calm water should have ample time to care for his crew.
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Old 29 September 2013, 17:26   #53
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Guess I should have explained the classes, as I did not think about the difference between US and British standards. The big ugly orange vests are type 1 which will turn an unconscious wearer face up in pretty ugly water. They are used primarily for offshore work. The type 2 may turn an unconscious user face up and should be used in sheltered waters only. Our inflatables come in different series from basically a simple floatation device to ones similar to the type 1. If you use an inflatable not capable of turning a person face up, you still may drown. Unfortunately some people pulled from the water wearing a floatation device have drowned. Hypothermia is a real problem, so anyone boating where it would be probable should certainly wear the proper attire. But I thought the subject was not wearing a PFD in calm water at slow speed? The shotguns were primarily used from a canoe duck hunting in calm water, not when joy riding in calm water with the family. There is a tremendous difference from running at high speed in a small craft in the open ocean and cruising at slow speed in sheltered waters. The faster you go and the rougher the water, the faster you can get yourself in trouble. A lookout in calm water should have ample time to care for his crew.
You don't put your kids at risk no matter where or what your on.

Rule 1. Where a life jacket at all times
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Old 29 September 2013, 19:37   #54
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On occasions this year, I have ribbed on the Warwickshire Avon (River) max speed 5 knots (I Believe), always, but always insisted all people wear their LJ, even at that speed and the river being so flat, it does not stop you going overboard, you only need to be moving on the deck, and trip.
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Old 30 September 2013, 01:48   #55
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Worth trying to swim with a scared kid without one...

I've ( purposely) swum in my buoyancy aid with my 3 year old (in her life jacket) in benign waters. (We spend a lot of time boating - so wanted to acclimatise) - it was a nice warm day.

With that ba on (& hers), she managed to push me under as she used my head to try and get out the water! She is a strong swimmer (as am I) and spends happy hours in the pool.

I am glad that I make the choice to always wear buoyancy - reduces the chances of ever having to explain why I have lost a loved one for the sake of.....; well, can't really see what is gained.

(And yes - older kids/ adults will panic when dumped over the side unexpectedly etc)
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Old 30 September 2013, 03:13   #56
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I'll reiterate about the cold. In former life when I was fit and young, I was an RYA sailing instructor so wearing life jackets had been ingrained in me since my first water encounters at age 10.

I never wore wetsuit except on a handful of occasions as safety boat was always a minute away and land swim able distance. However, one day, I decided to take boat to Queen Mary reservoir and we were only sailing boat out on water. On that day I was wearing wet suit (buoyancy aid was a given). Time of year was not summer, but not winter either, possibly this time of year (end of school holidays), but it was a long time ago and I cannot really remember.

Anyway, we turtled (inverted) the boat and the dagger board disappeared through the centre of the boat leaving us with no way of righting the boat without one of us (me) diving under to retrieve.

I reiterate, I was young, fit and the water was not cold (although blowing a hooley) and I was wearing a wet suit.

However, within a few minutes, I was totally exhausted and I had to move from salvaging boat mode to preserving my life mode (my mate was fine as he had not exhausted himself diving under the boat to push dagger board back up). I ended up so cold that I had to curl up in a ball and hang on to one of the sheets (ropes). I simply did not have the energy to hang on to something more solid.

If I had not been wearing a buoyancy aid, I probably would have drowned in the time between capsizing and the QM rescue boat picking us up.

It was an inland piece of water, yet still quite a chop in the occasional place, enough to bounce your kids out of your boat if hitting a rough patch.

I've never had a problem wearing a lifejacket but then, I've been wearing them since age 10. My new life jacket fits so well, I don't even know I'm wearing it and it certainly doesn't restrict my movement or make me hot.

Please at very least buy floatations devices for your kids and insist they wear them from the moment they set foot over water - yes even on pontoons - I've seen someone fall off a pontoon and hit their head on way in. Thankfully not a serious accident, but only luck meant that they could recover themselves from the water and not rely on their lifejacket.

Where's Tyler? In the time taken for the penny to drop and for you to realise they are in the water, they could have drowned.
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Old 30 September 2013, 03:13   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richardnhunt View Post
Worth trying to swim with a scared kid without one...

I've ( purposely) swum in my buoyancy aid with my 3 year old (in her life jacket) in benign waters. (We spend a lot of time boating - so wanted to acclimatise) - it was a nice warm day.

With that ba on (& hers), she managed to push me under as she used my head to try and get out the water! She is a strong swimmer (as am I) and spends happy hours in the pool.

I am glad that I make the choice to always wear buoyancy - reduces the chances of ever having to explain why I have lost a loved one for the sake of.....; well, can't really see what is gained.

(And yes - older kids/ adults will panic when dumped over the side unexpectedly etc)
I have done a fair bit of open water swimming and the situation you describe above is what scares me. There are plenty of articles on "the mammalian dive reflex" and help you understand what happens when you enter the water. It takes me three or four times at the beginning of the season (triathlon) to get used to open water and the temperature. I wear a specialist wetsuit and I have backup this can still go wrong. It's the reaction to being in the water that is the most dangerous. The folks on here mean well and have the welfare of all at heart. Delivery of that message is the key to how it is received.
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Old 30 September 2013, 03:22   #58
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Hypothermia is a real problem, so anyone boating where it would be probable should certainly wear the proper attire. But I thought the subject was not wearing a PFD in calm water at slow speed?
Cold shock is not hypothermia. It's a far more urgent problem when you are immersed in cold water. It's unlikely to be on your risk assessment radar if you only boat in warm water, but anyone using small boats in temperate or cold climates really needs to understand how serious it can be.

"Cold Shock Response lasts for only about a minute after entering the water and refers to the affect that cold water has on your breathing. Initially, there is an automatic gasp reflex in response to rapid skin cooling. If the head goes underwater, water may be breathed into the lungs during the gasp. The result is simple: drowning. Thatís one of the many benefits of a life jacket or PFD: it helps to keep your head above water during this critical first response."
4 PHASES OF COLD WATER IMMERSION

"The initial response to immersion is cold shock. It only lasts a few minutes but is the cause of many deaths."
http://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollection...ypothermia.pdf

"Cold Water Shock occurs when a person experiences sudden immersion into water 15įC or below. Cold water can paralyze your muscles making it very difficult to put on a Lifejacket of PFD in the water, so it is very important that you are wearing one the entire time you are boating."
https://www.boatsmartcanada.com/cold...-immersion.htm

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The problem comes in when someone familiar with one set of conditions insists that his is the only way to look at a subject. That is not a reasonable position.
Indeed.
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Old 30 September 2013, 10:58   #59
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Looks like we have another kill cord thread going here.

I have experienced turning turtle in 45 deg water, and that is an extremely dangerous position to be in. We had to climb into a tree, as there was no bank within reach. I agree that you must be extra careful in cold water, but that did not stop us from duck hunting. There is a certain amount of danger in any endeavor. If you do not understand that, you should stay home and watch TV. Even bath tubs claim injuries from time to time.

I also experienced hypothermia when getting thoroughly wet in cold weather, and that is the stuff of nightmares. You lose the ability to reason when that stuff hits you, so taking precautions is just common sense. Hunters suffer that fate at an alarming frequency without even being near the water.

As far as children in PFDs, my girls and grandchildren wore them constantly until the were superior swimmers. At this stage, conditions dictate whether or not PFDs are worn.

It is interesting that so many feel that just wearing a PFD prevents accidents. We had a case of a lady standing up in a moving boat recently as the boat went under a low bridge who was killed by impact with the bridge. There is no way to live completely in a cocoon, so we must depend on using our brains to determine what steps should be taken under whatever circumstances we are in. No one is allowed to stand at any speed in my boats except to manage fishing tackle and spoken notification is required before standing. No one is allowed to bow ride or be in a position where they could be tossed overboard. I emphasize one hand for the boat and one hand for you at all times. The helm is manned anytime the motor is running.

Someone noted the incidence of drowning reported by the Coast Guard. It was not noted how many men were found with the fly of their pants unzipped which contributes to that number. Several years ago, numbers for that activity were published which were alarming. Here again, careless behavior is demonstrated.

I have used boats since about 1949 for many different uses and understand that you have to keep your mind in gear when on the water. We have boated everywhere from far offshore to tiny creeks in various sizes of boats, kayaks, and canoes. For more years than I like to think about, I went solo far too many times. There was only one occasion when a PFD would have been good to have on, and that was in duck hunting where it would have been a real problem to wear.

You cannot depend on just whether or not you have on a PFD to keep you safe. You can depend on using your head to consider the circumstances and reacting accordingly however. I would invite someone who feels that a PFD must be worn constantly to boat with us under our conditions and find out that it can be a problem which inhibits you in certain activities. Common sense is a little uncommon I fear, and there are exceptions to any rule except keeping your mind in gear at all times.
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Old 30 September 2013, 11:27   #60
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Looks like we have another kill cord thread going here.
Like the one where everyone agreed apart from one person who insisted on doggedly defending his unsafe practice?

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It is interesting that so many feel that just wearing a PFD prevents accidents.
I've seen nothing that suggests that anyone here feels that way. Have I missed something?

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There was only one occasion when a PFD would have been good to have on, and that was in duck hunting where it would have been a real problem to wear . . . I would invite someone who feels that a PFD must be worn constantly to boat with us under our conditions and find out that it can be a problem which inhibits you in certain activities.
Duck hunting is a bit of a niche activity round here. Apart from operating in extremely hot conditions (which isn't relevant to the OP, and unfortunately isn't to most of us here either) what reason is there not to wear an inflatable lifejacket any time you're out in a small boat?

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Common sense is a little uncommon I fear
I does appear that way sometimes
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