Which is better, Manual or Automatic for Towing/Slipway?

[Devonmark35]

Originally Posted by BrAinZ

About to get myself a new vehicle, but am slightly torn between getting a manual or automatic.

Well used to towing with a manual, but never done so with an Automatic.

Will putting an automatic in Park on a slipway, absolutely mean it won't move?

Will an automatic cope with a slippery slipway and 6.5m Rib OK?

Any advice gratefully received!

To be really honest you should not be too worried about manual or auto (I prefer auto for towing) more worried about make of vehicle!

I have several Land Rovers including a new Range Rover (which I love) but would never ever recommend them to anybody due to very poor reliabilty concerns. All of my Landys including my 1996 300tdi Defender have problems from now and then. The absolute worst was a disco 2 TD5. Its reliability was just plain awful and thats a fact before anybody starts raving about how great they are. I dont deny they look good and off road/towing are very good but forget it if you think they wont let you down.

I also challenge event landys and have driven them/repaired them all over the world during my time spent in the armed forces. In fact it was during the intial Bosnian conflict that the UN decided Land Rover reliabilty (not off road capability which is excellent) was so poor we returned our entire fleet (over 300 vehicles) and replaced with Toyota land crusiers and hiluxs!

We even made Land Rover continue to make the 300tdi (called Wolf) defenders when they stopped selling them to the public because the TD5 was so unreliable.

Saying all that I still love them but if its going to be your only 'pride and joy' get an auto Hilux - you wont be sorry.

Hope that helps

[Devonmark35]

Originally Posted by Mollers

Tried 'em all in every combo and ended up shovelling it out. Had the Disco stuck twice, never had the L200 with ATs stuck.

Mollers - please take this reply with the respect I mean it to have but - to say an L200 got through when a disco 2 could not does not ring true. For starters an L 200 has old cart springs so axle articulation and hence full off road capabilty is not nearly as good as a spring coil axle. Secondly you say your L 200 had all terrains which after driving in deserts for years has proven to be the tyre of choice for such terrain - what shoes did the disco have? Third did your disco have terrain responce or good old diff lock and did you use it? Were the terrain conditions the same for when the disco got stuck and the all terrain shod L200 got through identical?

In the end its down to driver ability and if you had said the disco broke down in the sand and caught fire or rusted away before you had time to recover your boat to the slip then that I could beleive but not the info given possibly suggesting an L200 mitsy is better on sand than a disco.

Sorry old chap just my thoughts but given with extensive driver experience.

[Mollers]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

So even with all the toys & bells they're still not idiot proof then

I'll pass that on to the Missus, the stuckee.

[Mollers]

Originally Posted by Devonmark35

Mollers - please take this reply with the respect I mean it to have but - to say an L200 got through when a disco 2 could not does not ring true..

It's a 3 and yeah, tyres were/are a big part of it. It wasn't a case of getting 'through'. It was being able to pull away on ice.

Won't be convinced, that auto is better than manual when there's next to zero grip. Sorry. All respect due and all that.

I also prefer manual going down hill on ice. Low box, feet off pedals is far preferable to HDC in my book. Only my old skool opinion, no one has to agree.

[Devonmark35]

Originally Posted by Mollers

It's a 3 and yeah, tyres were/are a big part of it. It wasn't a case of getting 'through'. It was being able to pull away on ice.

Won't be convinced, that auto is better than manual when there's next to zero grip. Sorry. All respect due and all that.

I also prefer manual going down hill on ice. Low box, feet off pedals is far preferable to HDC in my book. Only my old skool opinion, no one has to agree.

Hi Mollers

Glad you took as was intended. As you and I both say tyres make a huge diffrence. I didnt suggest, though, that an auto is better off road infact the complete oppisite as I use a manual Defender for serious challenge/winch events - would never use an auto for really sticky stuff. I will have a read through my posts again just to make sure I didnt suggest that autos were better off piste - dont want to miss inform anyone! Indeed many appolgies if I at all suggested that was the case.

I do as Im sure you agree stand by the fact towing heavy loads on steep inclanations etc with an auto with no clutch to slip or burn out is very advantageous though.

I cant seem to find anyway of including smilies in my thread via the Iphone so instead heres a smile just for you Mollers :-)

[two stroke mick]

Have a 1999 auto merc E200 auto brill on the slipway.

TSM

[markg]

Originally Posted by Devonmark35

Mollers - please take this reply with the respect I mean it to have but - to say an L200 got through when a disco 2 could not does not ring true. For starters an L 200 has old cart springs so axle articulation and hence full off road capabilty is not nearly as good as a spring coil axle. Secondly you say your L 200 had all terrains which after driving in deserts for years has proven to be the tyre of choice for such terrain - what shoes did the disco have? Third did your disco have terrain responce or good old diff lock and did you use it? Were the terrain conditions the same for when the disco got stuck and the all terrain shod L200 got through identical?

In the end its down to driver ability and if you had said the disco broke down in the sand and caught fire or rusted away before you had time to recover your boat to the slip then that I could beleive but not the info given possibly suggesting an L200 mitsy is better on sand than a disco.

Sorry old chap just my thoughts but given with extensive driver experience.

i have an l200 on road tyres. bog standard bridgestone 205s, also have a td5 disco and do 90% of my mileage off road the l200 is thirsty but it is just better than a disco in the mud, shouldnt be but it is, the disco is a far better tow vehicle though, big trailers just push the l200 all over the place, the disco takes it easier

[Devonmark35]

Cool markg - pleased for you.

So in the end auto better than manual for towing?

[marinesafety]

Auto every time. Much easier all round; long journeys, slipways etc. I had a Disco 300tdi for towing. Only time the auto box ever got a little unhappy was towing a 10m back from Wales up and down lots of hills when it got a little warm. Lurcher on here has both (Disco 3) used for towing and he said to me once never touch a manual.

Managed to pull a 4ish ton boat up a slipway with it once as well, no fuss at all (the weight was so massive, even in forward at idle the car was moving backwards down the slip).

[marinesafety]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

If you can drive properly, you don't need someone to work the gearbox for you. .

That comment reminds me of one a police-man made after my 80 year old Grandmother drove her car into a ditch (after being driven into the side of) at a very well known accident blackspot: "there's nothing wrong with this junction. It's the drivers"

[Mollers]

The op was kind of in two parts-

Auto- towing?
Auto- Recovering?

In my opinion, as said, having one of each.

Auto- towing? Yes, for sure.
Auto- recovering? If traction is a real problem, a manual gives more driver control, so edges it.

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by marinesafety

That comment reminds me of one a police-man made after my 80 year old Grandmother drove her car into a ditch (after being driven into the side of) at a very well known accident blackspot: "there's nothing wrong with this junction. It's the drivers"

It's true though.You wouldn't do 30 knots in Newtown Creek in the dark with no idea how much water there is.
It's beyond me why drivers insist on driving so fast into a situation that they can't react or stop in time to avoid an accident.

[BogMonster]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

It's true though.You wouldn't do 30 knots in Newtown Creek in the dark with no idea how much water there is.
It's beyond me why drivers insist on driving so fast into a situation that they can't react or stop in time to avoid an accident.

'Cos they have ABS, airbags and insurance, and are therefore invincible

[Jizm]

I've had a couple of autos now and yes they are nice and easy to tow with. However I've found on quite a few that when you towing at cruising speed 50-60 mph it's usually right where the gearbox is going into overdrive. So I get this bloody annoying thing with the box dropping down etc all the time.
Maybe I've just been unlucky or perhaps should try towing much faster!

[akirk]

As my auto rangie has the ability to select 8 forward and 2 reverse gears manually, I see no advantage in having a manual over an auto. I did my BORDA quals. in an auto rangie which walked all over a manual defender on the same course (mind you the 5ltr v8 helped )

ref. reliability - yes LRs can be a bit ropey but I have owned 3 rangies / one freelander / one LR and all have been absolutely fine...

of course if you need to put a vehicle down a slipway get a Toyota like the one on Top Gear when they parked it upside down in the water through a tide and it still started!

Alasdair

[Mollers]

Originally Posted by akirk

As my auto rangie has the ability to select 8 forward and 2 reverse gears manually, I see no advantage in having a manual over an auto.

Here's how it works. Take a very slippery slope, ice or slimey weed type thing. When trying to pull away uphill on such a surface, trying not to break traction is critical. A 4x4 manual will allow the driver to select 1st low and very gently feed the clutch into barely any revs, tickover sometimes. This gives the best chance of not breaking traction.
An auto however, doesn't allow this. By the time that the torque converter is spun up enough to begin driving the wheels, there's way too many revs on which can result in broken traction, spinning wheels.

[akirk]

I agree with the theory - but would say in practice that it has not been a problem - I have driven it up icy hills / snowy hills / slippery grass hills etc. - yes, a manual gear box should offer a better solution - but very often drivers don't have the skill to feed the power in slowly enough - often the comfort / skill level of the driver is the determining factor...

Alasdair

[BogMonster]

I think it is fair to say that just about anything automatic (gearbox, anti lock brakes, traction control, maybe cruise control) is better than the average driver so is better than say 90% of drivers at doing what it does, but not as good as the other 10% that really know what they are doing.

[markg]

Originally Posted by Devonmark35

Cool markg - pleased for you.

So in the end auto better than manual for towing?

you appear to know everything, decide for yourself

[akirk]

Originally Posted by BogMonster

I think it is fair to say that just about anything automatic (gearbox, anti lock brakes, traction control, maybe cruise control) is better than the average driver so is better than say 90% of drivers at doing what it does, but not as good as the other 10% that really know what they are doing.

Agreed - but lets not also forget that other 10% will at times be tired / distracted / make mistakes...

so for my choice - auto works well... but there will always be those who are a joy to watch in knowing how to handle machinery - for them a manual makes sense

Alasdair