Which is better, Manual or Automatic for Towing/Slipway?

[Devonmark35]

Originally Posted by markg

you appear to know everything, decide for yourself

Oh dear - have i upset you. Grow up. The original post was not by myself but by another who asked the question - read the post FULLY before comenting and getting your knickers in a twist. I am just repeating the question again to try and confirm what the overall thoughts and impressions were to try to help the guy who posted the question and keep the thread on track!!!!!!

You told us that the L200 was better than a Land Rover in the mud.

1 Thanks for this suggestion factually backing it up with your highly detailed and scientifically proved data/experience - "it should not be better but just is" - WHAT the hell????

2 I have informed the MOD procurement department in both Whitehall and Bath to tell them to stop purchasing Land Rovers as we have all got it wrong! Apparently markg says L200's are much better in the mud - phew thanks mark we may have made a mistake there and carried on buying useless Land Rovers for our armed forces! Good call mate

3 Solihull have been informed that apparently their (well) proven design is actualy awful in the sticky stuff. L200s are just ("dont know why but they are") better Try again Land Rover

4 The reply to you was not meant as an insult - just more of a means to say well done for you and pleased you drive something you like . Im sure you love your off road Land Rover recovery vehicle

Stay cool mark

[Nos4r2]

Now, about that bilge pump...

[Burtox]

Large 4x4 are great for yanking the boat out but very expensive to run and handle like an ice cream vans

Auto 2 wheel drive do have trouble putting the power down on a slippy slips.

Maunal front wheel drive do have trouble gripping and like to smoke the tyres, spectators love this.

I bought a 4motion V6 golf which seems to be a resonable compromise and has got me out of many dodgy slips but the ground clearance is rubbish. A tdi quarttro - 4motion may even be better.

[BogMonster]

Originally Posted by Devonmark35

You told us that the L200 was better than a Land Rover in the mud.

1 Thanks for this suggestion factually backing it up with your highly detailed and scientifically proved data/experience - "it should not be better but just is" - WHAT the hell????

2 I have informed the MOD procurement department in both Whitehall and Bath to tell them to stop purchasing Land Rovers as we have all got it wrong! Apparently markg says L200's are much better in the mud - phew thanks mark we may have made a mistake there and carried on buying useless Land Rovers for our armed forces! Good call mate

3 Solihull have been informed that apparently their (well) proven design is actualy awful in the sticky stuff. L200s are just ("dont know why but they are") better Try again Land Rover

I can well believe an L200 will outdo a Land Rover in certain conditions and the reasons are simple enough when you know what you are talking about, as I do having owned 3 Defender 90s, a Defender 110 and three Discoverys all of which have been on and off road. I've also driven an L200 off road and owned 2 Ford Rangers, which is a fairly similar car in terms of suspension and drivetrain design.

Like my Ranger, most (maybe all) L200s have a part time 4x4 system which locks the front and rear axles together, and most if not all will also have a limited slip diff in the rear axle. This means that on low traction surfaces, the admittedly basic transmission actually makes a very good job of putting power on the ground and as long as you don't lift a front wheel off the ground, may well outdo the bongs-and-judders traction control systems fitted to D2 and D3 vehicles. I have had both D2s and D3s "stuck" (deliberately, testing honest Boss) in a situation where the traction control should have walked it through but just wasn't man enough for the job.

I can name any number of magazines that say a D2/D3 is "better than a Defender" but that doesn't very often happen in the real off road world either, because the suspension travel is relatively poor, there is too much plastic underneath - and on the bumpers - and every time all the electrickery sees a puddle it gets a fright. Which is why the MOD use Defenders.

Sorry but I think you're a troll, try an L200 owners forum, did you used to be called Codprawn?

[Devonmark35]

A troll - interesting concept. Codprawn - what the hell are you going on about man I bet you are one of those Falkland Island residents who opted for Argentine nationality - are you (hey you cast the first dispersion remember)?

Fine now onto L200 etc.

Lets look somewhere like Diflock shall we

Difflock :: View topic - help me turn my l200 into an off-road beast

Please read this thread which talks abouts rubbish reliability and dare I say it an alternater located at the bottom of the engine!?!? Have I got that right? Must have been designed like that during their extensive off road testing. Sure that sounds great for deep or even shallow water/mud work

Why are you talking about D2 & D3 and about how they are better than Defenders - who said that - I dont remember being that specific - was I? Perhaps I was talking early D1 and in that case could by default include a Defender and locking centre diff! Not traction control!. Please explain?

The rear diff locker is probably fitted to help out having a light rear end when not carring any load and working in deep mud. I can go with you on this as a rear diff locker is certinaly a distinct advantage - but - I have never seen any of the 4 or 5 animals in our off road club out do a Defender/D1 (non traction control) in the mud. Sorry but thats my stance on that! Horses for courses and all that.

With reference to the statement about why the MOD use Defenders and not Discoverys and the later TD5/TDCi Defenders - heavens above man did I not say in an earlier post thats the reason they still have 300TDI Wolfs in service due to poor reliability.

With reference to your "I can name any number of mags" statement concerning D2/D3 being better than a Defender - what has that got to do with anything on this now slightly irrelevant thread. Why would I say a D2/D3 is better than a Defender when I own a 300TDI Defender? Just remind me when I said that please BOGmonster

I dont disagree - LR reliability is very poor which is what I have said since my first reply to this thread. What I am confused about is the rest of your reply (stand fast debatable/own opinion of relevant off road ablities)

Before casting dispersions on me may I suggest reading the full thread or at the very least include relevant information in your first salvo!

;-)

[BogMonster]

Sorry, I stand corrected. I'll tell dad to dump his 1994 L200 'cos it must be costing him a fortune in maintenance

You were the one who had a go at the original person who said that an L200 outdid a Discovery 3 in certain conditions and said that what he said was rubbish. I was merely pointing out that this was potentially incorrect and citing reasons why that could be.

I'm sure the OP would like to get back to the original question about manual vs. auto so I'll shut up before this thread gets bilged.

I also like to remember the attached at all times

[Anchorhandler]

Just to help get this thread back on track....

Before we sold our Landmark TD5 (auto) last year, i used to use it for launching various boaty type things including our Valiant V570. The only advantage i found in using the auto was..........wait for it.......the ability for me to reach inside with the drivers door open, put the Disco in 'drive', release the handbrake and gently apply pressure with my hand on the accelerator and slowly 'walk' the truck/trailer up the slipway!! .... Used to save me climbing inside with wet legs/shorts after single handedly recovering the boat. Once i was well clear of the water then it was a simple case of reaching in, applying the andbrake and putting it back into 'P'................simples

Before people reply in horror at what i have just posted, remember this,..one man's recklessness is another man's carefully calculated risk assesment....perfectly safe to do in the right conditions with the right experience (which i have, believe me)

This was honestly the only advantage i found to using an auto....to be frank, i hated every minute of owning the Disco as it just couldnt compare to my old Pajero for sheer grunt and maneuverability when towing. (the Disco needed tugs to help maneuver it into tight spots)

Finally, i'm always bemused at how people defend or critisise Land Rovers with such fervor and enthusiasm......i have always found it to be 'different courses for different horses'....i have owned quite a few defenders/rangies/ disco's among many other brand of 4x4's including an Explorer, two pajero's, a Hilux Surf (awsome tow vehicle if you can find a manual one) and a Merc ML and find that each had something to offer...there is no real 'best' 4x4 out there as being 'best' is so dependant on what your going to be using it for...
I live on a farm and for that reason could possibly justify having another defender...but to be honest, if i didnt live where i do then in no way would i touch one again.

And sorry to all those true Defenders/Land rover Fans out there for saying what im gonna say next but....

During my 'trialing' phase about 12 years ago i converted my range rover classic to a pick up and shortened the overhang at the rear (bob-tailing) amongst a wealth of other modifications to both the suspension, engine and tyres. All this in an effort to be more competitve at going around a circuit laid out in some quarry or forest somewhere. Unfortunately though, no matter how much time and effort i spent on my vehicle i would quite often get beaten by...........Suzuki sj13's with a set of dumper tyres fitted to them.....
Emarassing as i was driving a 'go anywhere', 'best 4x4xfar' Land Rover....


Simon

[Mollers]

I've done 60k in my L200. 1 clutch, 1 exhaust rear section, 1 new rad, 1 battery, 1 set heater plugs. + service consumables, tyres, pads/shoes etc.

[Devonmark35]

Simon - very true indeed we too have Zukis that are very very capable.

Mollers - It would appear that I had "had a go at you" as pointed out by Bogmunster I would like to appologise if indeed this was the case however I do seem to remember talking with you at a level that did not really justify "having a go at". If however you feel I did then very sorry old chap.

Bogmunster - I was talking to Mollers about the fact he was using all terrain tyres on sand with one vehicle and road tyres on another - a somewhat unfair advantage even you should agree with

Also please dont appologise about saving your Dad some money - just glad to help out

I did like your picture about working on the computer late at night - very good I like it . Is that my wife calling me to go to bed at 0255 Oh no its just me working night shifts .

Anyway I can hear the kettle calling me.

Auto D3s then all round - only joking

[Mollers]

Originally Posted by Devonmark35

Mollers - It would appear that I had "had a go at you" as pointed out by Bogmunster

No problem whatsoever. I used to be a bit of a 'have a go' merchant myself, now I can't be arsed.

The problem with having an opinion on most forums, this one, I fear, in particular, is that, no matter how experience based and credible one's opinion may be, others will leap all over it.

[Searider]

I used to keep an old Discovery for towing the boat - was kind of given it so all was well until it got too rusty to pass an MOT. It was a manual and it was great for towing and recovering. When reversing if it was in low range it was very sedate and controlled - almost not needing to touch the pedals. Only time it didn't quite work was when towing on road the gap between 1st and 2nd was a little wide if going up hill. So, a manual 4X4 is fine.

Replaced it with a normal(ish) car. Decided I needed either rear wheel drive or 4 wheel drive as the slip I use is muddy. Nothing I looked at had a low ratio box. Didn't want to be on the slip smoking the clutch so went for an auto.

Volvo XC70 diesel Auto has done everything asked of it.

Also considered passat TDI 4 motion - but rare as hens teeth and no auto option. Skoda octavia Scout - bit too new and over budget.
Audi Allroad - too flash for my Mrs and I don't trust the air suspension.
Merc E class estate - seems a bit big.
BMW 5 Series - too expensive for the spec i'd want. However a mate of mine has since bought a 525d manual and tows his 6.5m with no problems at all.

[BogMonster]

Originally Posted by Devonmark35

Auto D3s then all round - only joking

I'll have one like a shot -- if you are paying for it when it breaks

Great car when it all works, which is sort of the problem.

I agree about Suzukis - my father imported the first SJ410 to the Falklands and went all over the place on the standard road tyres (in those days there were no roads here - anywhere - apart from when it arrived on the ship it never touched a road in the 10 years he had it). The light weight meant it was brilliant on soft ground - if a little bouncy when it got harder. I more or less learned to drive in it - nearly rolled it a couple of times - and the mechanicals were still going strong when you could see the ground passing underneath the footwell, if you lifted up the bit of lino he kept in there to stop the puddles coming in

[Mollers]

Originally Posted by BogMonster

I'll have one like a shot -- if you are paying for it when it breaks

Great car when it all works, which is sort of the problem.

I agree about Suzukis - :

I had a couple of SJs, a turd brown van, I swapped the seats for highback Suppercarry items , very 'trick'. Also, a yellow ragtop. Great fun, both sh*te on fuel.

The rear floor pans used to dissolve.

[BogMonster]

Rear floor in ours was OK I think - it was the footwells that went completely. It was handy in one way though - you could lift the lino and kick all the mud and spent cartridge casings out through the holes - it was LHD and the seat/window/mirror positions made it brilliant to shoot out of. Maybe the blood in the back acted as corrosion proofing

[Anchorhandler]

a turd brown van,

Since we're embarrasing ourselves, here's a couple pics of my younger 'trialing' days as mentioned before...

First picture = my modified Classic
Second picture = how i used to spend 65% of my time
Third picture = one of those pesky leaf-sprung 'Zuki's' defying the laws of phyisics..
Fourth picture = wow i looked cool back in those days.........didnt i???

Simon

[LURCHER]

I have 2 Disco 3s one manual other one auto , we tow a big portaloo around and it weighs tons when full ,on some occasions we need to go into low box on the manual to pull away without wrecking the clutch the auto never has a problem !

[Nasher]

My previous cars have always been manuals.

I had some reservations about going Auto when I brought the D3 last year.

After a year of using it every day, the odd green lane, the snow and ice either side of Xmas, towing on the motorway, across wet fields and slimy slipways, I wouldn’t go back to a manual.

However.
How much of that is just because it’s a D3 auto I can’t say, as I never had the chance to compare an auto version of any of my other 4x4s.

Nasher

[macattack101]

I swapped my disco for a 5 series estate auto then bought a boat (daft choice i thought) but it has handled towing my valiant 620 brilliantly so far. The rear wheel drive has decent traction but i do miss the old truck as I can only use decent slipways with the beemer. I'm still new to towing and its the one thing that makes me nervous but I'm getting better with the reversing.

[Mollers]

Originally Posted by macattack101

I swapped my disco for a 5 series estate auto then bought a boat (daft choice i thought) but it has handled towing my valiant 620 brilliantly so far.

I've owned a 525tdi and 530tdi Touring, both very able tow cars. I rate those big BM oil burners as the best.

[BrAinZ]

Thanks for all the entertaining discussion

In the end, I bought a diesel auto Freelander.

Haven't towed the boat with it yet, but will let you know what I think.