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Old 21 May 2014, 09:35   #1
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What size trailer?

I have a dilema. My boat (old zodiac 530 Pro) is currently on an old snipe brake back bunk trailer that has a very basic cantilever spring arm suspension. Under my boat the camber on the tyres is excessive and mud flap clearance is minimal. It's un-braked and rated to 750kg. I've decided to replace it as I would prefer a roller trailer and the cost of modifying the current one isn't worth it. At the same time, I'm making some changes to the boat, new engine, consoles, fuel tanks etc and I don't know what it will weigh when finished. I've put some numbers together:-

Boat 250kg (from hull plate, assuming tubes included)
Battery 15kg
New engine 155kg (Tohatsu TLDI MD90C2, from Tohatsu)
Aux Engine 25kg (old Johnson 4.5 seagull)
Aframe + boxes 12kg (estimated - will measure)
Fuel + tanks 65kg (Estimated, 70+12l in plastic tanks)
Console 30kg (inc electronics and steering)
Anchor locker 15kg (will measure to check)
Anchor + wraps 10kg

Total mass comes out at 577kg. Assuming a trailer mass of 170kg, that gives pretty much 750kg. I will be right on the limit for an unbraked trailer with no spare capacity for other kit.

The dilemma is do I go for the much cheaper unbraked trailer with less maintenance to worry about but probably be a bit over the limit, or go for the additional capacity in case I put anything else on the boat or want to travel with kit in it (we're divers), but have to pay £500 extra for the trailer and then additional servicing?

For what its worth, I'm considering the extreme 1100 super roller at about £1700 and £500 delivery (its a long way from Southampton to Cumbria), or the 750 super roller at about £1100 and £70 delivery (comes in a kit by courier). My boat is on the length limit also for the 750.

Any comments greatly appreciated!

Phil M
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Old 21 May 2014, 10:57   #2
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I would advise taking the boat on its current trailer to a weighbridge, as I think you will be surprised how much it actually weights (weight on hull plates are notoriously inaccurate). I had a customer in a similar situation to you with a Humber 5.3m & Honda 90hp recently. He had done the maths and come out around 750kg. When he weighed the rig, it came out at 900kg!

If you are interested, we could supply a SBS R2/1000EL (with full EU type approval) including delivery to Whitehaven for £2000 + VAT. See South Coast Boat Trailers - R2/1000EL Single Axle Multi Roller Boat Trailer. I would advise you to compare the build quality of the different trailers before making a decision and decide if you want a trailer that meets the EU type approval standard.
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Old 21 May 2014, 11:36   #3
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£500 delivery! Is that a typo?
I drive down to Southampton a fair bit so might be able to tow it back for you to Manchester for a charitable donation (plus snacks on the way)
Maybe even a bit further North if the snacks hold out....
I'm down here this afternoon and tomorrow and again in a couple of weeks.
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Old 21 May 2014, 11:40   #4
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Talk to Dan at degraff trailers....in my opinion top class trailers and a really nice bloke too!
No connection just a happy customer.
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Old 21 May 2014, 11:49   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SW Boat Transport View Post
I would advise taking the boat on its current trailer to a weighbridge, as I think you will be surprised how much it actually weights (weight on hull plates are notoriously inaccurate). I had a customer in a similar situation to you with a Humber 5.3m & Honda 90hp recently. He had done the maths and come out around 750kg. When he weighed the rig, it came out at 900kg!

If you are interested, we could supply a SBS R2/1000EL (with full EU type approval) including delivery to Whitehaven for £2000 + VAT. See South Coast Boat Trailers - R2/1000EL Single Axle Multi Roller Boat Trailer. I would advise you to compare the build quality of the different trailers before making a decision and decide if you want a trailer that meets the EU type approval standard.
+1 nice trailer n well built
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Old 21 May 2014, 14:53   #6
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I was surprised at my rigs weight. I have an 1100kg rated trailer and worked out if be right on the limit or just under. I took it to the weighbridge and found I was 1220kg with only a few lines and small anchor. Let alone any other kit.

I spoke to DeGraaff trailers but they were quite immovable on their advertised price and poor trade in value for a pretty reasonable Roller Coaster 3 trailer, surprisingly. So I've plumped for an SBS R2/1800 trailer from SW Trailers (post above) and it should be here soon!


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Old 22 May 2014, 05:53   #7
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Also if buying to trailre spec remember the lentgth pof a Rib has a good metre od toob overhang that isnlt ther eon a hard boat.....

can usually subtract a m when spec-in a trailer's length !
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Old 22 May 2014, 06:36   #8
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Deep down I knew it would be the more expensive option. It is a boat after all and when is anything ever cheap!

The Extreme delivery cost (read that whichever way you like) was because it involved a bloke dragging it up then driving back again. I'm in Bristol fairly frequently so can take a day trip to collect, if I go for that option. I emailed Extreme and they have informed me that their EU type approval is "in its final stages" as it is not required until the 29th October this year.

SW - Thanks for the offer. I'll keep it in mind.

Thanks all

Phil M
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Old 22 May 2014, 06:55   #9
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for a price comparison give John Nicholson a call for a quote. they are very good trailers and we are very pleased with our recent twin axle purchase. it was worth the drive up north to collect.

Nicholson Trailers 750-3500 kg Roller trailers Boat Trailers for sale in Lancashire, North West :: Boats and Outboards
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Old 22 May 2014, 07:19   #10
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I emailed Extreme and they have informed me that their EU type approval is "in its final stages" as it is not required until the 29th October this year.
EU Type Approval has been on its way in for some time and became compulsory on 29th October 2013. Most of the big brands like SBS and Indespension are now supplying trailers that meet the EU type approval. There is a exemption for "Special Purpose" trailers until 29th October this year, but the Department for Transport have advised that boat trailers would not be considered "Special Purpose" unless they are unable to comply for some reason - Boat Trailers and Type Approval.

It is important that you get this right, as using a trailer on the road that requires type approval but doesn't have it would be illegal and could invalidate any insurance that was in place.
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Old 23 May 2014, 04:36   #11
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I've had some info from Admiral trailers. There prices are between Extreme and SBS and they say, although not yet type approved, they can provide a trailer which will meet the requirements, or can be individually approved for about £85, or supply specification certificate to allow use in Europe.

So, more questions......

Firstly, anybody have any recent experience with Admiral? They have been great so far at answering emails and providing information. All the info I can find on the forum is quite old and they may have been in liquidation for a while. It is the same bunch as their product/reputation appeared to be pretty good.

Secondly, this Type Approval thing. Clearly not all boat trailers have it. What is the issue if they don't? I understand that additional lighting, reflectors and design details may be required, so type approved trailers may be better, but in the case above where a type approval compliant spec trailer is available without the paperwork in place for type approval, what does this mean as a trailer owner?

Thanks again......

Phil M
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Old 23 May 2014, 04:53   #12
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From what I've read If you intend using abroad it needs type approval. If used only in the UK it doesn't need to be Type Approved.
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Old 23 May 2014, 13:29   #13
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From what I've read If you intend using abroad it needs type approval. If used only in the UK it doesn't need to be Type Approved.
Type Approval applies throughout the European Union including the United Kingdom. Some mainland European (many of whom have had their own similar approval systems and lighting requirements in place for several years) are being more pro-active at enforcing the legislation than the UK authorities appear to be at present. I expect it won't be to long before DVSA (formerly VOSA) get in on the act though.
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Old 23 May 2014, 13:43   #14
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Originally Posted by Phil M View Post
I've had some info from Admiral trailers. There prices are between Extreme and SBS and they say, although not yet type approved, they can provide a trailer which will meet the requirements, or can be individually approved for about £85, or supply specification certificate to allow use in Europe.

So, more questions......

Firstly, anybody have any recent experience with Admiral? They have been great so far at answering emails and providing information. All the info I can find on the forum is quite old and they may have been in liquidation for a while. It is the same bunch as their product/reputation appeared to be pretty good.

Secondly, this Type Approval thing. Clearly not all boat trailers have it. What is the issue if they don't? I understand that additional lighting, reflectors and design details may be required, so type approved trailers may be better, but in the case above where a type approval compliant spec trailer is available without the paperwork in place for type approval, what does this mean as a trailer owner?

Thanks again......

Phil M
A few points:

1. Type approval applies throughout the European Union, including the United Kingdom, so supplying a "specification certificate to allow use in Europe" just doesn't make sense.

2. Using a trailer which requires type approval but doesn't have it would be illegal even if it was technically compliant in a similar way to using a car without a MOT would be illegal even if the car was upto the standard of the MOT test.

3. You could risk having the trailer impounded. Although I have not heard of this happening in the UK yet, I know a case of it happening in Spain.

4. If a trailer is illegal, then any insurance cover on it and the goods it is carrying (ie your boat) would be invalid.
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Old 23 May 2014, 16:51   #15
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Does type approval only apply to trailers manufactured from a certain date?

What happens in the case of older trailers where the date cannot ascertained?

Do we all have to go out and buy new type approved trailers to stay legal?
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Old 24 May 2014, 00:52   #16
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Does type approval only apply to trailers manufactured from a certain date?

What happens in the case of older trailers where the date cannot ascertained?

Do we all have to go out and buy new type approved trailers to stay legal?
Type approval only applies to 'incomplete and complete' trailers since 29th October 2012 and 'completed' trailers since 29th October 2013.

There is a interesting article on the Indespension website - http://www.indespension.co.uk/blog/i...vel-of-ecwvta/
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Old 24 May 2014, 02:52   #17
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So to clarify, if I buy a new trailer which is not type approved, in theory it could be impounded, although unlikely. From the Admiral point of view, would the single vehicle type approval get round this?

I'm labouring on this but I really want to be sure.

Phil
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Old 24 May 2014, 05:03   #18
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So to clarify, if I buy a new trailer which is not type approved, in theory it could be impounded, although unlikely. From the Admiral point of view, would the single vehicle type approval get round this?

I'm labouring on this but I really want to be sure.

Phil
Individual Vehicle Approval (IVA) is effectively the same thing, except that your specific trailer would need to be taken to a DVSA test station to be certified as compliant.
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Old 26 May 2014, 14:57   #19
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Dont forget even though an unbraked trailer may have the max 750 kgs stamped on it you can only tow it if it weighs less than half the weight of the tow car .
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Old 23 June 2014, 06:54   #20
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The type approval thing was bugging me so I got in touch with the VCA, who administer type approval for VOSA and asked. Their response is below-

"I quite understand the confusion regards this matter, I found one such article dated 2012 which was based on advice given at the time by ourselves and the Department for Transport. Subsequent to that our technical interpretation branch (TSG) have issued this guidance (dated February 2013) regards BOAT TRAILERS, as coming under the category of SPECIAL PURPOSE VEHICLES:

The legislation defines an SPV as one with “specific technical features in order to perform a function which requires special arrangements and/or equipment”. Having decided whether a vehicle is an SPV, then the concessions in the SPV Annex are applied. So an SPV could actually have no technical concessions. The legislation does not say that a vehicle can only be Special Purpose if there is something about its special features that prevent it complying with one or more elements of the legislation.
The question is how to interpret “special purpose” in this context and VCA believes that it should mean “not general purpose”.
Typically this will mean vehicles that are designed for a function and need to be wheeled to facilitate convenient transportation, but can also include trailers which are specifically designed to carry one type of load only.
Flat-bed trailers that have attachments for such equipment to be attached but can also carry general loads do not meet these criteria.

TRAILERS - CLASSIFICATION AS SPVs - Y/N
• Boat trailer - Y

In terms of Type Approval, our own website( Trailer Certification ) gives a table which indicates that trailers in the SPECIAL VEHICLE CATEGORY that are NEW TYPES (i.e. a new model not previously manufactured) MUST comply with Type Approval and this came into effect on 29th October 2012, the delayed element that you refer to, relates to trailer types that existed BEFORE 29 October 2012, these must comply with Type Approval on and after 29th October 2014. So the decider here is when was the type first manufactured, if on or after 29th October 2012, it should already have Type Approval, if BEFORE 29th October 2012 then the type does NOT need to comply until 29th October 2014."

The last statement makes it clear in my mind that an existing trailer design still be legally sold and used, up to the end of October this year. From then on, all trailers will need to be approved.

My next question is with regard to swing beam or keel roller. I've currently got keel rollers and bunks, which have trashed the hull so will be going rollers. Swing beams however typically don't have keel rollers and I'n concerned regarding damaging my keel on launch and recovery, on the cross members, as my local slip is rather steep. Has anybody had this problem or am I being paranoid?

Phil M
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